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Old 11-26-2011, 01:01 PM   #676
jphish
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Wonder if the BMW CEO is going to "go off"' on the "they should be ashamed" triumph again, as he did on der 800 intro ? Arent the new 1200GS liquidcooled ? Hope they didnt "copy" triumph on that...
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:22 PM   #677
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According to my info, the new Tiger Explorer will come on the market with an 20 litre fuel capacity (Fuel tank that is).
I'm not sure what the fuel economy will be of Triumph's new 3 cylinder. The MK1 Tiger (1994) was great, but thirsty. Haven't got a clue what the fuel economy of today's modern Triumphs are. The 800(XC) scores really good figures...

It sure is an interesting option to replace my current Honda XL1000V Varadero (the Crosstourer isn't), together with the Yamaha S10. Keen on a test ride next spring. The Duc MST isn't an option. Reliability matters. And with over 10.000 miles a year I'm keen to get an replacement with shaft ride in stead of chain/sprockets.

The BMW GS isn't an option. Cause everyone already has one... ;)
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #678
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I can't see Triumph pricing the 1200 at less than the Tenere, unless they drop their 800 XC price as well - and that's not likely to happen.

I think the USA will see the Triumph 1200 in the $15,500 - $ 17,500 range, which - when you look at the features - would effectively draw a LOT of business away from BMW.

It's interesting to note that when you compare the F800GS pricing with Triumph's Tiger 800 XC pricing, you see that Triumph didn't exactly undercut BMW.

The Tenere - fine bike that it is - is not really competition for the BMW bikes, any more than the Toyota Corolla is competition for the Honda Accord. These products address two different segments of the market, and are aimed at buyers in looking for two different riding experiences (albeit possibly the same destinations).

I agree with those who long for more fuel - and more range - out of the Triumph 1200. That's one of the areas BMW hit a home-run with on their bike. I have gone 300+ miles between fuel stops many times, and anything called "adventure" that runs dry after 225 miles is (for me) a disappointment. I think 7.5 gals would be much better for the Triumph, but I'm sure they have their reasons for installing a smaller tank.

I hope the 1200 Explorer is immensly successful for Triumph, just as it seems the 1200 Tenere is for Yamaha.

Look for water-cooled Boxers in 2013.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:27 PM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
The Tenere - fine bike that it is - is not really competition for the BMW bikes, any more than the Toyota Corolla is competition for the Honda Accord. These products address two different segments of the market, and are aimed at buyers in looking for two different riding experiences (albeit possibly the same destinations).


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Old 11-26-2011, 06:40 PM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
The Tenere - fine bike that it is - is not really competition for the BMW bikes, any more than the Toyota Corolla is competition for the Honda Accord. These products address two different segments of the market, and are aimed at buyers in looking for two different riding experiences (albeit possibly the same destinations).
If when you say "Tenere", you're talking about the Super Tenere, then you're WAY off base here. The R1200GS and Super Tenere are extremely close in spec and are by far the most similar bikes adventure bike segment. They're about the same size, weight, power, both twins, same displacment, both shaft drive, both have identical size wheels, power characteristics, accessories, etc. MCN just did a one-on-one direct comparison test because they're direct competitors with one another. Yamaha has publically stated that they designed the S10 to compete directly with the R1200GS.

- Mark
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:28 PM   #681
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I disagree.

I think the Triumph 1200 will compete with the BMW, but not the Super Tenere.

If that's Yamaha's claim, then they aren't being realistic.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:34 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
It's interesting to note that when you compare the F800GS pricing with Triumph's Tiger 800 XC pricing, you see that Triumph didn't exactly undercut BMW.
Last I checked the Tiger XC is $1000 US less than the F800GS .... similarly equipped. If you read Magazine tests ... several have pointed this out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
The Tenere - fine bike that it is - is not really competition for the BMW bikes, any more than the Toyota Corolla is competition for the Honda Accord. These products address two different segments of the market, and are aimed at buyers in looking for two different riding experiences (albeit possibly the same destinations).
And what "two different segments of the market" were you thinking? The GS and 1200 Tenere ARE in the same class and bring in the same sort of riders ... generally. Where you get the Corolla vs. Accord analogy is curiously .... damaged logic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
I agree with those who long for more fuel - and more range - out of the Triumph 1200. That's one of the areas BMW hit a home-run with on their bike. I have gone 300+ miles between fuel stops many times, and anything called "adventure" that runs dry after 225 miles is (for me) a disappointment. I think 7.5 gals would be much better for the Triumph, but I'm sure they have their reasons for installing a smaller tank.
You have no idea what Adventure riding is mate.
Sounds like you're more into Iron Butt type rides? ... the most ridiculous and wasteful sort of riding ever invented ... and just plain boring.

I was doing Adventure riding in the 1960's, riding Baja alone on my Honda CL175 with two gallons of fuel, and later toured Mexico and Cent. America on a borrowed Jawa 350. Neither could go more than 125 miles per tank. Never had a problem. (due to fuel)

I've since ridden bits of Africa and Asia on 125's, much of the EU ... and more. Mostly on bikes with no more than 150 to 200 mile range.

This Big Range thing is more BMW hype/mythology ... and the GS Adventure is proof positive BMW have NO CLUE what an Adventure bike should be; It's a Pig, a poser ... a touring rig playing Dakar dress-up.

It's riders really no different than Harley clones in Pirate costumes vs. BMW Tourtech queens in Twat suits ... and it's down right dangerous off road.

Broken femur ... coming up.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:33 PM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post

It's riders really no different than Harley clones in Pirate costumes vs. BMW Tourtech queens in Twat suits ... and it's down right dangerous off road.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:39 PM   #684
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Oh my, Mr Grifter - so sorry you got your undies in a bunch over a different perspective.

I stand by my statements, and we simply disagree on several points.

You may want do do a bit more research. Just a thought.

TTFN
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:02 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
Oh my, Mr Grifter - so sorry you got your undies in a bunch over a different perspective.

I stand by my statements, and we simply disagree on several points.

You may want do do a bit more research. Just a thought.

TTFN
Bain, Grifter may be on the far end of the spectrum, but that doesn't make you right either. The Super Tenere is a direct attack on the R1200GS. If you doubt that just read this forum, there are ton's of folks that bought a S10 instead of the GS! Plenty of dick swinging standoffs between the owners of each. Sure it may not compete in regards to status, the Yammy doesn't have the panach at the latte stand that the blue and white propeller does, but as far as features and style its a direct attack.

And so to is the X1200, and the CrossDresser. Now there will be 4 camps trying to figure out who's dick is biggest.

As a prospective X1200 owner I can guarantee that the well endowed ride Triumphs.

Grifter, that must have been one hell of a latte stand at the end of that road for a BMW guy to risk getting his bike so dusty
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:42 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
I think the Triumph 1200 will compete with the BMW, but not the Super Tenere.

If that's Yamaha's claim, then they aren't being realistic.
Sounds to me like when you're saying the two bikes don't "compete", what you are really saying is that the BMW is so much better the Yamaha isn't competitive. Your distinction is one of merit, not category. Which is a valid opinion, although not shared by very many.

If you truly think the S10 and the R1200GS are dissimilar, compete in different segments of the market, and appeal to different riders (like your weird Corolla/Accord analogy), then I think you are completely off your rocker. The S10 is a Japanese R1200GS, plain and simple.

- Mark
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:27 AM   #687
Paulvt1
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Supposedly the tank range of the Tiger is 180 miles. Info comes from some journo who has ridden the bike. Given how much fun the triples are to ride / flog i wouldn't be too surprised.
Folk who have sat on it say it's about the same size as the 800 Tiger - but a touch wider - and there is a XC version coming out next year.

Paulvt1 screwed with this post 11-27-2011 at 01:48 AM
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:04 AM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Last I checked the Tiger XC is $1000 US less than the F800GS .... similarly equipped. If you read Magazine tests ... several have pointed this out.


And what "two different segments of the market" were you thinking? The GS and 1200 Tenere ARE in the same class and bring in the same sort of riders ... generally. Where you get the Corolla vs. Accord analogy is curiously .... damaged logic!

You have no idea what Adventure riding is mate.
Sounds like you're more into Iron Butt type rides? ... the most ridiculous and wasteful sort of riding ever invented ... and just plain boring.

I was doing Adventure riding in the 1960's, riding Baja alone on my Honda CL175 with two gallons of fuel, and later toured Mexico and Cent. America on a borrowed Jawa 350. Neither could go more than 125 miles per tank. Never had a problem. (due to fuel)

I've since ridden bits of Africa and Asia on 125's, much of the EU ... and more. Mostly on bikes with no more than 150 to 200 mile range.

This Big Range thing is more BMW hype/mythology ... and the GS Adventure is proof positive BMW have NO CLUE what an Adventure bike should be; It's a Pig, a poser ... a touring rig playing Dakar dress-up.

It's riders really no different than Harley clones in Pirate costumes vs. BMW Tourtech queens in Twat suits ... and it's down right dangerous off road.

Broken femur ... coming up.


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Old 11-27-2011, 06:30 AM   #689
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Originally Posted by swimmer View Post
Straight from his friend's sister's husband's father.

The bigger tank model ain't happening in the forseeable future, not in the 2012 model year according to my dealer, as I previously posted, prior to Crazy Canadian's post

My weekly commute to work is 220 miles, refuelling more than once a week would a pain in the proverbial, because the nearest filling station is 7 miles in the opposite direction to my route.

I also frequently visit people who live 230 miles away - I want to do this journey non-stop

I have had my deposit ion the bike refunded. The bike in it's current 20 litre tank form is of no use to me, hence I'll now be buying something else. The bike was originally planned with a larger tank but this was reduced in size, as reported by Triumph's marketing director in MCN.
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:30 AM   #690
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The Corolla / Accord analogy just clouds the water for us guys who know nothing of cars, or care

Back to comparing bikes I'd consider the GS, Explorer and Tenere to all be in the same class with a bit different angle on things, and they all appeal to me. However, there's only two of them that I'd seriously consider for purchase, and it's not the GS.
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