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View Results: Explorer or Explorer/XC
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:47 AM   #1456
Croak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Greg View Post
At 5-8/145 this is just what I didn't want to hear. From what I'd gathered before it sounded like this is a bike for big guys. Oh well, a test ride will be in order anyways...

--Doc
Keep in mind with the low seat option set at the lowest setting, it's a 810mm seat height, which is practically living-room sofa low for a big ADV bike. Doesn't do anything about the weight of the Explorer, but, well, you can always add personal mass. :) At a buck-forty-five and five eight, you've definitely got some margin. Eat something!
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #1457
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:44 PM   #1458
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I see that according to Ash the Triumph has "the widest service intervals of any current bike".

What are the service intervals for the S10?
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:58 PM   #1459
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Originally Posted by zuma View Post
I see that according to Ash the Triumph has "the widest service intervals of any current bike".

What are the service intervals for the S10?
S10 Owners Manual Says

Oil changes every 6K miles
Rear end lube 12K miles
Plugs every 12K miles
Valve adjustment 24K miles
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #1460
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Originally Posted by paul thompson View Post
Hmm. I'm kind of on the fence. I have no plans to chop the S10 in for any other bike. It'll cost me too much, and frankly, the Yammie will probably outlive me.
As for the BMW vs Triumph schtick - here in the UK (ironically enough) BMW have better dealer backup than Triumph. Case in point - my mate at work placed a £2500 deposit for a Sprint with a Triumph dealer that went bust and lost the lot. Triumph UK told him they were under no obligation to provide either a bike or recompense, whereas all the Japanese importers provided customers with bikes or their deposits. Then there is the fact that Triumph have shat on a lot of damn good dealers who were with them for years (Boyer, Streetbike, Wylie and Holland) in favour of the big corporate players.
BMW dealers like Pidcocks have a huge loyal customer base which will only get bigger when the water Boxer GS pops up.
I guess that if i was in the market right now, as i was 12 months ago, then it would be nice to have all of this choice. The Triumph would more than likely head the list, but i want top flight back up and parts supply, which is what swung me in favour of the S10.
That's interesting regarding dealer availability and policies. Here in the states, BMW drove out many old mom and pop dealers by demanding a minimum size display area, etc., which some of these dealers just could not do. In the process, they lost not only customers, but a very deep knowledge base of technicians who had seen and done just about anything with these bikes. As for the rest of the brands, nearly all the japanese bikes have melded into large multi-brand dealerships (the one in my area handles Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and SeaDoo). There are literally no older technicians in the repair departments anymore, and the most common method of diagnosing is to keep replacing parts until the problem goes away. In the good old days, the smaller dealerships had a handful of people who did everything, and thus knew the bikes well. Not so anymore. Probably the only brand to still have some of these type of dealers left is Harley Davidson, and of course their technology has not changed nearly as quickly as other brands, so that gives them an advantage as well.The Triumph network here in the states has had some dealers go out in this recent economic meltdown, and some of these were just getting some momentum. As good as any bike may be, I think the dealer quality and availability is a huge factor that none of the magazines or online reviewers ever mention. For those of us that do our own wrenching, it is less an issue, but the advances in the technologies such as ride-by-wire and ABS, etc. will force most everyone back to the dealers for some services, so this has to be a very large factor when you are outlaying this kind of cash. Just my opinion.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:13 PM   #1461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
The review mentions "The Triumph Tiger Explorer is heavier than the BMW, certainly, but lighter than either the Super Ténéré or the hefty Honda..."

According to the Kevin Ash review of the Super Tenere, the Triumph's wet weight is less than 1% lower than the Super Tenere (571 lbs verses 576 lbs).
Consider the Super Tenere has dry sump lubrication to lower the engine in the chassis to give a lower center of gravity.
Consider Triumph did a last minute redesign to reduce the fuel capacity to lower the bike's weight. Triumph's marketing department knows the most common criticism of the Super Tenere is the high weight, so they are afraid to market a bike even heavier.

For a good reviewer, I would expect a more informative statement like the difference in weight between the Triumph and Yamaha is "negligible."

To compare the Triumph's price, Ash says "it's a little cheaper than a similarly specced BMW." Why not say 13% higher than the Super Tenere ($15,699 verses $13,900)?
$1800 is a significant chunk of money just to get electronic cruise control...
...and lower fuel mileage and smaller tank range...

Maybe the Triumph is a better bike and worth more money. Maybe the extra ponies are just what the doctor ordered. Just saying the Ash review seems biased the way the comparisons were handled.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:15 PM   #1462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coast range rider View Post
The review mentions "The Triumph Tiger Explorer is heavier than the BMW, certainly, but lighter than either the Super Ténéré or the hefty Honda..."

According to the Kevin Ash review of the Super Tenere, the Triumph's wet weight is less than 1% lower than the Super Tenere (571 lbs verses 576 lbs).
Consider the Super Tenere has dry sump lubrication to lower the engine in the chassis to give a lower center of gravity.
Consider Triumph did a last minute redesign to reduce the fuel capacity to lower the bike's weight. Triumph's marketing department knows the most common criticism of the Super Tenere is the high weight, so they are afraid to market a bike even heavier.

For a good reviewer, I would expect a more informative statement like the difference in weight between the Triumph and Yamaha is "negligible."

To compare the Triumph's price, Ash says "it's a little cheaper than a similarly specced BMW." Why not say 13% higher than the Super Tenere ($15,699 verses $13,900)?
$1800 is a significant chunk of money just to get electronic cruise control...
...and lower fuel mileage and smaller tank range...

Maybe the Triumph is a better bike and worth more money. Maybe the extra ponies are just what the doctor ordered. Just saying the Ash review seems biased the way the comparisons were handled.
Last minute as in years ago? I don't think weight was the reason they got rid of that ponderous design, it was somebody with an eye for aesthetics who also realizes that the money to buy these bikes does not come from people who ride from Paris to Dakar, they ride from Outer Suburbia to Starbucks. They also surely evaluated all the competition (with the exception of the CrossDresser) and saw that 200-250 mile range was indeed the norm. And they also wanted a strong family resemblance between the 800 and 1200.

And you know, you don't actually lose points for owing a S10, nobody comes and collects "winners fees" for the competing brand, nothing has changed about your bikes.

As for cost difference, it's priced on par with what an S10 used to list for. Personally, I'd indeed pay more for the triple and past satisfaction with the Triumph ownership experience.

I'm also thinking they picked the right price, because even at $1800 more in the US, I'm willing to bet it outsells the Yamaha by a considerable margin, while still coming in as a mild bargain compared to the GS.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:22 PM   #1463
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Honestly, if I hadn't recently purchased an XC I would buy one. I think they'll be all the rage.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:26 PM   #1464
RaY YreKa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coast range rider View Post
To compare the Triumph's price, Ash says "it's a little cheaper than a similarly specced BMW." Why not say 13% higher than the Super Tenere ($15,699 verses $13,900)?
$1800 is a significant chunk of money just to get electronic cruise control...
...and lower fuel mileage and smaller tank range.
That's just a USA price comparo. Everyone else was asked to pay through the nose for an S10.

Yamaha Europe, for instance, has had to massively discount the S10 and offer sweetners. Their post-recession mantra of 'we are the premium japanese brand' has not been absorbed by the consumer.

I'm not knocking Yahama or the S10 btw, they were hit by the Yen and the Tsunami, but the growth brands in Europe are BMW, Ducati, and Triumph. By quite a margin.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:28 PM   #1465
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The bike is going to be good at certain things.

In typical Triumph fashion, it will serve their local market well I recon and the motor has torque in all the right places.

So does the Honda.

As far as Ash goes, you can see he is picking and choosing the targets.

The weight difference is Sweet FA 6% against the Honda.. The steering geometry will make more of a difference.

YAMAHA did take a swipe at the GS reliability, but not as brazenly as Triumph, so that they are not the only ones.

Out of the 1200's the S10 will be better for economy and range. (except the GSA on range).
Very few in Europe and the UK really care about range.

The Explorer is a Crosstourer with faster steering geometry, a few percent less weight, (claimed to claimed) and a Transformers look.

It is yet to be seen, but I still get the feeling that there will be a few sleeping explorer shots coming in the future. The Stroms may have something to worry about.

I expect the remaining 1000cc Vtroms to be heading to the shredder soon. They are really looking (and feeling) dated.

The new WasserBoxer will be heavy or weak. Take tour pick.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:31 PM   #1466
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
YAMAHA did take a swipe at the GS reliability, but not as brazenly as Triumph, so that they are not the only ones.
Tbh I was gobsmacked at the dyno stunt. I had no idea BMW gave a GS+ version to journos. I'd heard of Suzuki sneaking in better suspension, and Aprilia jacking up the rear end of the RSV, but such a difference is kinda sneaky.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:04 PM   #1467
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
The new WasserBoxer will be heavy or weak. Take tour pick.
If the GS comes close to this weight range, it'll be a 'no-go' for a number of people IMHO. They can get the hp up I'm sure, but making the GS heavier isn't attractive at all.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:25 PM   #1468
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Has anybody placed a deposit?

Does anybody plan to?

From what I understand the bikes should be arriving in April.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:41 PM   #1469
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Originally Posted by zuma View Post
I see that according to Ash the Triumph has "the widest service intervals of any current bike".
Most bikes these days are at 6K for oil changes, but Triumph is apparently going to give 10K a go, perhaps because they spec synthetic oil. I don't think there is anything fundamentally different about the Explorer engine that makes it more suitable for 10K oil changes than any other bike, so I wouldn't read too much into it - Triumph has simply arbitrarily decided that the tradeoff between engine life and maintenance expense can be compromised a little more towards reduced maintenance expense. You could do the same with your S10 or GS if you liked.

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Old 02-26-2012, 09:46 PM   #1470
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I was just curious re major service intervals for the S10 as my TDM valve adjustments are every 40,000ks (24,000m), and I suspected the S10 would be similar. Triumph thus being a little loose with the truth?

The extended oil change distance sounds like just a marketing ploy, how long between changes do they recommend time wise, 6 months?
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