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Old Yesterday, 09:53 AM   #1
kerhonky OP
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Stupid question: are we over-thinking things?

Obvious answer: Fuck yes.

OK, I'm probably premature on the answer there, but I really don't get it. I don't really want to start another debate about throttle control in corners and all that shit, but there's something that's been bugging me the past few days.

In one of those threads about throttle control (can't find it or else I'd respond there, but I'm sick of looking for it), as well as in other places, the claim is made that if you overcook a turn you should add lean angle, and that rolling on the throttle is necessary to counteract the fact that increasing lean angle effectively reduces the diameter of your tires. While this certainly sounds plausible, and those that espouse its veracity certainly sound like they know what they're talking about, it doesn't make sense to me.

When I'm riding at a reasonable pace and enter a turn, I follow the curve of the road until I can see through the exit of the turn, at which point I add lean angle by pushing on the inside handlebar. Just like we're taught when we learn to use the late apex. Well, in most cases, I don't add throttle. I just keep it steady. And my bike turns just fine, even though the diameter of my tires is effectively reduced because the contact patch is moved towards the side of the tires. I don't fall over, my bike doesn't go out of control; everything turns out just fine.

Wouldn't it work exactly the same at higher speeds? What am I missing? I know my eyes start to glaze over after three or four posts with the circles and arrows and equations, so maybe there's something I skipped over.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 AM   #2
dwizum
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Yes we are over-thinking things. Or maybe under-explaining or under-justifying things.

Or actually now that I think about it, I think the most common mistake is over-generalizing things that are important or advantageous in a small number of cases and treating them as if they are critical or important in all cases.

Do you care if your speed is exactly constant through the curve? If no, then the "compensate for the smaller diameter" argument is probably not important.

There still might be other reasons why rolling on the throttle is important (example: increased ground clearance) but I'd say in at least a certain percentage of a given rider's street riding time, most of these other reasons are probably not that important either. If I'm riding along at a reasonable pace on the road, most cornering is going to be nowhere near the bike's limits in terms of grip or peg-scraping lean.

Yes it is important to practice critical skills such that when you need them, they are automatic. But if I'm cruising along on my commute and I don't perfectly nail the art of throttle roll-on in a gentle curve, I'm not going to get nervous. I'm also going to concentrate on practical matters and how things feel on the bike, rather than what a bunch of people said in teh interweb forums.
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Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM   #3
catweasel67
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Given the veritable plethora of threads created recently, along with all of the information provided, I'd say that if you don't know how to go around corners by now, then you shouldn't be on a bike.
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Old Yesterday, 10:24 AM   #4
klaviator
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We aren't over thinking. We are just over arguing.
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Old Yesterday, 11:20 AM   #5
catweasel67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
We aren't over thinking. We are just over arguing.
We're not.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #6
Andyvh1959
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"Ello! I'm ere for an arguement!"

"No, you're not."

I agree, as everyone postulates theory, fact and internet blather as gospel or lies. I keep it straight, that for my riding, I do whatever I have to do to be smooth, and control bike stability. If that means throttle, I use it, it works for me. Doesn't have to be much throttle, just enough to aid stability. Same for brakes, or downshifting, or accelerating. SMOOTH is my goal.

And the end result is usually I am quicker and riding easier through the turns and twisties.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #7
Mr_Gone
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
And the end result is usually I am quicker and riding easier through the turns and twisties.
No you're not. You just think you are. Obviously you're wrong. If you were right, someone else's opinion would be wrong, and we can't have that.
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Old Yesterday, 12:03 PM   #8
henshao
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The question is not are we over-thinking things; the question is, are we over-thinking whether or not we are over-thinking how much we are over-thinking things.
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Old Yesterday, 12:05 PM   #9
Mr_Gone
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Originally Posted by henshao View Post
The question is not are we over-thinking things; the question is, are we over-thinking whether or not we are over-thinking how much we are over-thinking things.
That's certainly not enough thinking.
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Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM   #10
dwizum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henshao View Post
The question is not are we over-thinking things; the question is, are we over-thinking whether or not we are over-thinking how much we are over-thinking things.
I think I understand you, but maybe I need to think a little more.

Or have I thought enough?
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Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM   #11
DaLunk
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May I be excused? My brain is full.
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Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM   #12
2aRover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwizum View Post
Or actually now that I think about it, I think the most common mistake is over-generalizing things that are important or advantageous in a small number of cases and treating them as if they are critical or important in all cases.
I agree with this.

At least I overthink I do.
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Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM   #13
Rgconner
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Old Yesterday, 11:25 PM   #14
windblown101
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It's idle "bench racing" more than over thinking.
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Old Yesterday, 11:49 PM   #15
Mista Bob
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I think it's more of a people giving out advice who shouldn't be giving out advice problem.
If everyone kept quiet except for the people who legitimately know what they are talking about, there wouldn't be so much confusion when it comes to various "issues".

But then again that would require people to be bright enough to realize that they are wrong. Like that's ever going to happen.
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