ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-25-2013, 07:01 AM   #1771
fuelish
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Oddometer: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
I would be obstructing traffic and endangering mine and other's safety, but it is the other car's fault?
If you are overtaking a car going below the speed limit and you hit it, you are at fault. The other driver might be cited, depending on the circumstances.
fuelish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 07:45 AM   #1772
icebox
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: West Yellowstone, Montana
Oddometer: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
+1

As an added benefit, all those pounds lost = more HP for your motorized bike!

I'm going to nominate bumbeen for 'the troll of the thread' award. Good job!


M
No fair, you didn't even pick up on my Schwinn Varsity comment. Your probably to young to remember a 40 pound all steel ten speed, that was equiped from the factory with rust as original equipment. I rode a century on one in 1965. And FYI, Yellowstone is a wonderfull place to ride a bicycle, traffic is usually going no faster than 35-40 mph. And most folks show a fair amount of courtesy. Don't like the highway much where the speed limit around here is 70 on two lanes. The biggest problem is most folks are prone to sudden and unplaned, OMG look at that, stops in the middle of the road. So drafting an RV can be exciting. Be safe, and watch out for idiots, in or on any conveyance
__________________
motorcycles are like fly rods, you need way more than one.
icebox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 07:50 AM   #1773
bwalsh
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 9,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
Dastard understands the fact that just because something is legal doesn't mean it is a safe or smart thing to do. I could get on my moto and go 40mph on the interstate. I would be obstructing traffic and endangering mine and other's safety, but it is the other car's fault? That's what you morons are saying here. It's the other vehicles fault that you are obstructing traffic. Maybe if you get smacked off the road a few times you will understand the concept that legal doesn't mean safe.

It's any cages "responsibility" to safely navigate the roadways. If they(YOU) can't then they(YOU) shouldn't have a license.
If you don't like these "moronic" laws, then get your local politicians to change them.
You said yourself you've only been behind one bicycle in eight years. Then you don't even know what it's like to come up behind one then or be "stuck" behind one...for ten-twenty seconds. You're just jumping on the bandwagon and arguing for the sake of arguing when you really have no first hand experience(clue) as to what you are talking about.
That's the definition of a Moron.

Have a nice day...and try not to bully any bicyclists on the road, OK?
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 08:24 AM   #1774
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebox View Post
No fair, you didn't even pick up on my Schwinn Varsity comment. Your probably to young to remember a 40 pound all steel ten speed, that was equiped from the factory with rust as original equipment. I rode a century on one in 1965. And FYI, Yellowstone is a wonderfull place to ride a bicycle, traffic is usually going no faster than 35-40 mph. And most folks show a fair amount of courtesy. Don't like the highway much where the speed limit around here is 70 on two lanes. The biggest problem is most folks are prone to sudden and unplaned, OMG look at that, stops in the middle of the road. So drafting an RV can be exciting. Be safe, and watch out for idiots, in or on any conveyance
I saw it. You're a better man than I am.

@bumbeen: what difference does it make what speed I'm riding or driving? There's NO valid excuse for any of the behaviors we've seen typed out here.

Do you ram the guy that pulls out in front of you and makes you jam on the brakes?

Do you 'teach him a lesson' by getting next to him and moving him off the road?

Do you really believe that that cars don't do the same shit you're saying you do to MCs? Try counting the # of idiots you encounter on your next MC ride.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:17 AM   #1775
bumbeen
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Oddometer: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I saw it. You're a better man than I am.

@bumbeen: what difference does it make what speed I'm riding or driving? There's NO valid excuse for any of the behaviors we've seen typed out here.

Do you ram the guy that pulls out in front of you and makes you jam on the brakes?

Do you 'teach him a lesson' by getting next to him and moving him off the road?

Do you really believe that that cars don't do the same shit you're saying you do to MCs? Try counting the # of idiots you encounter on your next MC ride.

M
I'm not making an excuse for dangerous behavior. I'm telling you that just because something is legal (blocking traffic on a bicycle) does not mean it is safe or smart. And if you are doing it because you can, and because the law says you can when you could be on a vehicle with a motor where you would not obstruct traffic then you are also an ass, in addition to not being safe or smart.

You're right, it is legal for someone to pull out in front of you so close that it is dangerous, and by providing that example you are conceding that it is dangerous to obstruct traffic on a bicycle, yet you do it anyway.
bumbeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #1776
slide
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
It's any cages "responsibility" to safely navigate the roadways. If they(YOU) can't then they(YOU) shouldn't have a license.
If you don't like these "moronic" laws, then get your local politicians to change them.
You said yourself you've only been behind one bicycle in eight years. Then you don't even know what it's like to come up behind one then or be "stuck" behind one...for ten-twenty seconds. You're just jumping on the bandwagon and arguing for the sake of arguing when you really have no first hand experience(clue) as to what you are talking about.
That's the definition of a Moron.

Have a nice day...and try not to bully any bicyclists on the road, OK?
Nobody said they bully bicycles on the road. I ride bicycles often but tend not to side with you in this dispute because I think we who are vulnerable on any kind of bikes need to make sure we don't instigate or annoy the cages.

This isn't a case of 'law' where bicycles have the high road as it were. It's a matter of courtesy and plain fact. For some reason, many cagers hate wheelmen and runners just like they hate lane splitting bikes in CA. I used to be a runner and often had people shout nasty things at me while others who ran reported being pelted with bottles or other garbage.

Continuing to ride where bicycles are, by their presence, legal but discourteous (The damn cager can wait a few minutes for me to get around this curve, damnit!) isn't doing our cause any good.

You can say they should be patient and understand that if they pass on a blind curve or buzz you (sometimes resulting in a graze or a hit) but they won't and nothing your or gummie's attitude shown here will alter that.

We have to live with the world rather than force it to accommodate us.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #1777
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
I'm not making an excuse for dangerous behavior. I'm telling you that just because something is legal (blocking traffic on a bicycle) does not mean it is safe or smart. And if you are doing it because you can, and because the law says you can when you could be on a vehicle with a motor where you would not obstruct traffic then you are also an ass, in addition to not being safe or smart.

You're right, it is legal for someone to pull out in front of you so close that it is dangerous, and by providing that example you are conceding that it is dangerous to obstruct traffic on a bicycle, yet you do it anyway.
The difference between what I'm doing and someone pulling out in front of you is...

I've been there long enough that it *shouldn't* be a surprise when you get to me. If I'm a surprise to you, you need to look past the end of your hood.

So, bumbeen... what kind of MC are you riding? Your profile is somewhat less than filled out.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:28 AM   #1778
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
Nobody said they bully bicycles on the road. I ride bicycles often but tend not to side with you in this dispute because I think we who are vulnerable on any kind of bikes need to make sure we don't instigate or annoy the cages.

This isn't a case of 'law' where bicycles have the high road as it were. It's a matter of courtesy and plain fact. For some reason, many cagers hate wheelmen and runners just like they hate lane splitting bikes in CA. I used to be a runner and often had people shout nasty things at me while others who ran reported being pelted with bottles or other garbage.

Continuing to ride where bicycles are, by their presence, legal but discourteous (The damn cager can wait a few minutes for me to get around this curve, damnit!) isn't doing our cause any good.

You can say they should be patient and understand that if they pass on a blind curve or buzz you (sometimes resulting in a graze or a hit) but they won't and nothing your or gummie's attitude shown here will alter that.

We have to live with the world rather than force it to accommodate us.
How is it doing us any good to ride like a scared rabbit?

Do you ride like a scared rabbit on your MC or do you ride assertively?

Which works better?



M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:39 AM   #1779
bumbeen
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Oddometer: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
The difference between what I'm doing and someone pulling out in front of you is...

I've been there long enough that it *shouldn't* be a surprise when you get to me. If I'm a surprise to you, you need to look past the end of your hood.

So, bumbeen... what kind of MC are you riding? Your profile is somewhat less than filled out.

M
It isn't a surprise, but what I am saying is why don't you ride where it doesn't obstruct traffic? Just because it is legal to obstruct traffic, doesn't seem like a good reason to do so, especially when it isn't safe for the rider or the patient cager that slows to 15mph.

I have a DR650 and a Ninja 1000(z1000sx)
bumbeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:44 AM   #1780
slide
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
How is it doing us any good to ride like a scared rabbit?

Do you ride like a scared rabbit on your MC or do you ride assertively?

Which works better?

:

M
I ride hype aggressively on my motorcycle because I can. I ride my bicycles in a manner to not provoke cagers because I can't escape their wrath and also I'm much more vulnerable to it.

You guys trying to equate bicycles and motorcycles are muddying the waters. Being able to travel at any rate traffic is traveling on a motorcycle distinguishes them greatly from the 15 kph or so most consider brisk on a bicycle. If bicycles could cruise along at 65 kph up and down hills along with cagers also doing 65 kph, there would be no thread here.

Riding a bicycle on a fast travel road blocking the progress of cagers is legal here except on Interstates, but it's bad business. You are inviting retribution and inciting hatred to all wheelmen. It'd be the same if I rode my liter bike at 12 kph in traffic which wanted to go 65 kph. If all motorcyclists did this, we'd be attacked the same a wheelmen are now.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 10:34 AM   #1781
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
I ride hype aggressively on my motorcycle because I can. I ride my bicycles in a manner to not provoke cagers because I can't escape their wrath and also I'm much more vulnerable to it.
You don't see any correlation between how you're treated on a MC and how you're treated on a bicycle? Really? I must be unique then.

Quote:
You guys trying to equate bicycles and motorcycles are muddying the waters. Being able to travel at any rate traffic is traveling on a motorcycle distinguishes them greatly from the 15 kph or so most consider brisk on a bicycle. If bicycles could cruise along at 65 kph up and down hills along with cagers also doing 65 kph, there would be no thread here.
This WHOLE sub-forum is based on exactly the behaviors you're talking about! Cars tailgating. Cars SMIDSYing. etc etc etc. ...so I call bull on that one.

I've personally had cars merge into my lane looking right at me. At the time, both he and I were doing 75mph. He got a boot in the door and I twisted the throttle a little more.

Quote:
Riding a bicycle on a fast travel road blocking the progress of cagers is legal here except on Interstates, but it's bad business. You are inviting retribution and inciting hatred to all wheelmen. It'd be the same if I rode my liter bike at 12 kph in traffic which wanted to go 65 kph. If all motorcyclists did this, we'd be attacked the same a wheelmen are now.
1. define 'fast travel road.'

2. Google Warrenton, VA. Then come back and tell me where I'm *supposed* to ride so that I'm not blocking traffic. I'll wait. There IS no such thing unless I want to ride the 1.5mi 'trail' that crosses 29.

99% of the roads I ride are small enough to not even get a center stripe and I STILL get hassled. I'm headed from nowhere TO nowhere. Its not like I'm riding thru busy towns. Most of em don't have a stop sign, much less a stop light. See for example Rectortown, VA.

I've tried riding like a scared rabbit on both the MC and the bicycle. It results in more rather than less asshole behavior from the cars. I'll stop riding assertively for a bit, then the incidences of being passed in inappropriate/unsafe spots increases till I start riding assertively again, then they go back down.

All I gotta say is 'try it. You'll be surprised.' I get more room. I get passed into oncoming traffic less. I get passed over the crests of hills less. If I 'actively manage' the cars behind me with signals and waves, I get waves in return. Yes, there are still going to be assholes as evidenced by my posts here, but they happen less often.

Left to their own devices people are stupid. ...so I help em not be quite as stupid where I can.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #1782
bumbeen
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Oddometer: 104
If there's literally nowhere else to ride then obviously nobody would have a problem with it so I agree with you there.
bumbeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 12:39 PM   #1783
slide
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
You don't see any correlation between how you're treated on a MC and how you're treated on a bicycle? :Really? I must be unique then.
No. As I've written, I've never had an issue with aggressive cagers when I have been on my bicycles. If anything, cagers are excessively courteous to me doing things like refusing to go first at 4 ways stops even if they have the right of way to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
This WHOLE sub-forum is based on exactly the behaviors you're talking about! Cars tailgating. Cars SMIDSYing. etc etc etc. ...so I call bull on that one.

I've personally had cars merge into my lane looking right at me. At the time, both he and I were doing 75mph. He got a boot in the door and I twisted the throttle a little more.
I too have had scary incidents on the motorcycle. Bikes are my primary ride and I've ridden daily in the most competitive places in the US - the L.I. Expressway, L.A. Freeways and I95 from Ft Laud to West Palm. However I'm not sure in any case it was intent to injure or even scare me. We've seen many cases were bikes just are not visible to cagers due to a variety of factors such as the famous demo of the guy in the gorilla suit in the middle that basketball passing business. I expect you know what I mean.

By FAR, the recent bad incidents I've had on my motorcycles have been soccer moms in SUV's while they were on cell phones. I mean, take that away, and to my eye, the roads become immensely safer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
1. define 'fast travel road.'

2. Google Warrenton, VA. Then come back and tell me where I'm *supposed* to ride so that I'm not blocking traffic. I'll wait. There IS no such thing unless I want to ride the 1.5mi 'trail' that crosses 29.

99% of the roads I ride are small enough to not even get a center stripe and I STILL get hassled. I'm headed from nowhere TO nowhere. Its not like I'm riding thru busy towns. Most of em don't have a stop sign, much less a stop light. See for example Rectortown, VA.

I've tried riding like a scared rabbit on both the MC and the bicycle. It results in more rather than less asshole behavior from the cars. I'll stop riding assertively for a bit, then the incidences of being passed in inappropriate/unsafe spots increases till I start riding assertively again, then they go back down.
To me, a high speed road is one where the relative speeds of cages and bicycles is such to result in frustration for the cagers. It's not a specific KPH / MPH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
All I gotta say is 'try it. You'll be surprised.' I get more room. I get passed into oncoming traffic less. I get passed over the crests of hills less. If I 'actively manage' the cars behind me with signals and waves, I get waves in return. Yes, there are still going to be assholes as evidenced by my posts here, but they happen less often.

Left to their own devices people are stupid. ...so I help em not be quite as stupid where I can. :

M
I'm not the one with troubles on the road whilst on two wheels. You may intimidate someone by riding a bicycle aggressively and after all, nobody wishes to croak you so they'll back off, but you also may be sowing the seeds of hatred for the next wheelman or yourself the next time the cage sees you.

BTW, when I mean I ride my motorcycle hyper aggressively I do NOT mean I attack cages all the time or any time I can avoid doing so. I mean I will ride away from packs and into holes in traffic where I can be sure nobody CAN hit me because nobody is around. Also I'll navigate to be behind a cage when riding to an intersection (if possible) so the left turning cages will see the cage and then I'll be by before they can fail to see me.

That's what I mean. I don't mean I play chicken with cages coming the other way.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:27 PM   #1784
bwalsh
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 9,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
Nobody said they bully bicycles on the road. I ride bicycles often but tend not to side with you in this dispute because I think we who are vulnerable on any kind of bikes need to make sure we don't instigate or annoy the cages.

This isn't a case of 'law' where bicycles have the high road as it were. It's a matter of courtesy and plain fact. For some reason, many cagers hate wheelmen and runners just like they hate lane splitting bikes in CA. I used to be a runner and often had people shout nasty things at me while others who ran reported being pelted with bottles or other garbage.

So what do you call that behavior? I call it bullying verging on assault.

Continuing to ride where bicycles are, by their presence, legal but discourteous (The damn cager can wait a few minutes for me to get around this curve, damnit!) isn't doing our cause any good.

How long does it take to get around a curve. 20-30 seconds?

You can say they should be patient and understand that if they pass on a blind curve or buzz you (sometimes resulting in a graze or a hit) but they won't and nothing your or gummie's attitude shown here will alter that.

Again, what do you call that behavior?

We have to live with the world rather than force it to accommodate us.
Yeah, and being assertive regarding people screwing with you on the road is the best way to live that life.
We're not saying we are going to intentionally slow someone down but you have to take charge of the situation or you'll be sitting on the side of the road in the ditch for a lot of the day.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:29 PM   #1785
bwalsh
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 9,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
You don't see any correlation between how you're treated on a MC and how you're treated on a bicycle? Really? I must be unique then.



M

You need to borrow a GoPro one day so you can show these guys the roads and the idiots you are talking about.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014