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Old 06-24-2013, 01:29 PM   #2611
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sox Fan View Post
Not mad at all. They are really big and can't really move over to the right.

Pretty amusing how many assumptions people are making in this thread.

Also fascinating how many of you are defending two bicyclists riding side by side, uphill at 10 mph in a 40 mph zone. No wonder why so many keep trying to make it out that I am saying something else.
Here in washington state, bicycles are vehicles with the same rights, and obligations to obey traffic laws.

Cyclists are legally permited to ride side by side, and may use the travel lane when they can keep up with traffic, otherwise they are required to move right as far as safety allows. If they can't clear the lane then the 5 vehicle law comes into effect. If you come up behind a slower vehicle, you are required to slow until it is safe and legal to pass. If you are a slow vehicle and are delaying 5 or more vehicles you are required to clear the roadway as soon as possible.

IMO both cyclists and motorists are forgetting their rights come with responsibilities.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #2612
Dranrab Luap
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Originally Posted by pinarello rider View Post
I ride alot and I rarely see a NEED for a double pace line when there are other cars on the road and there is only one lane. Hell, there isn't a need when there are more than one lane. We do it because we can and we want to socialize with other riders.
It can serve the same purpose of taking the lane. To serve to dissuade someone from making an unsafe pass. If it was in a no passing zone and the lane is of insufficient width to accommodate a bicycle riding as far right as practicable and a motor vehicle giving a minimum of three feet of clearance, then it doesn't matter that they were side by side.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:21 PM   #2613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Here in washington state, bicycles are vehicles with the same rights, and obligations to obey traffic laws.

Cyclists are legally permited to ride side by side, and may use the travel lane when they can keep up with traffic, otherwise they are required to move right as far as safety allows. If they can't clear the lane then the 5 vehicle law comes into effect. If you come up behind a slower vehicle, you are required to slow until it is safe and legal to pass. If you are a slow vehicle and are delaying 5 or more vehicles you are required to clear the roadway as soon as possible.

IMO both cyclists and motorists are forgetting their rights come with responsibilities.
I love this law.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:56 PM   #2614
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Originally Posted by Sox Fan View Post
Driving this morning I got behind two bicyclists going UPHILL and, of course, side by side in the middle of the road. They couldn't have been going faster than 10 or 15 mph in a 40 mph zone. GET OUT OF MY FUCKING WAY! There was also a sidewalk and no reason they couldn't have been riding to the far right of the road if they insisted on being on the road instead of the sidewalk. Maybe there's a rule that if you have all the pro cyclist gear on you can't ride on the sidewalk? BTW - it was early on a Sunday morning and the sidewalks were empty. Ugh.

Sorry bicycle dudes - you are not going fast, you are not cool. You are slow and you are a pain in the ass.

Christ.
Please bear in mind that you ran across a couple of guys doing it pretty damn wrong. Please don't believe that that extends to all of us anymore than noisy HDs are representative of all motorcycles.

And, in most locales, it's illegal to ride bicycles on the sidewalk.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:59 PM   #2615
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Originally Posted by Digasi View Post
I totally get protecting your space. Motorcyclist do the same thing. But there is a line where you cross from protecting your space to being jerks. Unfortunately in my area at least the group riders will cross that line all to often. If there is a bike lane, then cyclist need to use it to at least allow cars to pass safely. Also they need to be aware when people are behind them and make sure they can pass.

More often then not groups here don't do the above. They will ride in the car lanes when a bike lane is made available. Our bike lanes are more then wide enough to allow both traffic (yes I know because I uses to bicycle as primary means of transit). They also not only don't make an effort to allow traffic to pass they hinder it. It is not uncommon to see a group occupy the lanes and not only not allowing faster traffic to pass easier, but in some cases even hinder it.

I am not saying drivers are any better, I would but my money on worse, but for a group whose's statement is "Share the Road" I would expect they would do to others what they want done to them. I give them the space they need, but it can get frustrating when the kindness is not returned.
Bike lanes. You see smooth pavement. I see broken glass, tree debris, sand and gravel and all the other detritus that gets rolled off the road. When I can do so safely, I'm all about the bike lane. If I think I'm going to be in danger by riding there, I'm going to ride right on the verge of the right lane or maybe in it. Sorry, man, but you'd probably rather not have me take a tumble right in front of you in a spot where you'll wind up hitting me with your car/bike/truck/rickshaw.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #2616
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Originally Posted by Sox Fan View Post
No - you are deflecting my question.

Again, why do some, not all, bicyclists need to ride side by side in the middle of the road? Are you guys ok with scooters, mopeds and motorcycles doing this?
Because they're crappy riders. Plain and simple. My team and I ride single file. If we're out on a farm road with exactly no traffic, we'll ride side by side, but 99.9% of the time, we're single file.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:06 PM   #2617
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You come up next to the ones that are impeding traffic , put your hand on their shoulder and SHOVE. If you do this carefully and discreetly [ no witnesses ] word will spread. If we ALL do this it won't take long at all for your trial and sentencing.
You left a few words off the end.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:26 PM   #2618
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You left a few words off the end.
I said discreetly.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:45 PM   #2619
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I think some bicyclists ride two abreast when they shouldn't because either they are too self-absorbed or they just don't care about blocking traffic behind them. I've ridden two abreast with friends but only on roads or streets with no traffic and if traffic appeared we'd get back in line. Never held anyone up, never had a hassle. That was in the San Francisco Bay Area. Drivers there are used to bicycles.

I think that in some parts of the country bicyclists are just so rare that drivers don't really know how to deal with them. i lived in Atlanta before California and I never tried to ride there after seeing what other cyclists went through. Either drivers there had no experience riding bicycles themselves or they didn't care or they just wanted to hurt people but you would be lucky to have them pass more than 12 inches from you regardless of how far to the right you were. I also lived in Boulder, Colorado around the same time. Boulder was a kind of bike racer's mecca then and you saw a lot of them on the streets, but I was nearly killed there for the "crime" of riding (legally, and as far to right as I could be) on a busy road. Later, a friend of mine had to quit riding her bike to work in a Boston suburb because she was frequently physically assaulted. Yes, she was beauty pageant beautiful but that does not mean men should have been reaching out the passenger window to grab at her butt or boobs, but that was what she encountered too many times.

That was years ago, but from my perspective the arrogance and aggressiveness of drivers has only increased over time. I recently had a job where I had to cross a fairly busy street to get to my car. I jaywalked, but only when there were no drivers affected. There was a traffic light about 100 feet from where I crossed. There were plenty of times that I would start to cross the street and the nearest car was an easy 200 yards away and the driver would speed up! I've checked the traffic light many times when this happened and it was either red or yellow, so the driver wasn't trying to make it through on the green light. Why speed up to 50-55 when you have slam the brakes on for the red light? The only reason I can come up with is that they wanted to "scare" me. Have some fun.

Then there are the numbskulls that think they can or should simply run over anything that does not get out of their way, whether an animal or a person. These people shouldn't be allowed to drive anything but a tricycle. They would be on the phone to the cops in 5 seconds if I stood at the corner and emptied a mag down their street but they think it's fine or funny to swerve a car at a bicyclist or speed up to scare a pedestrian or to create roadkill when they could have driven around the animal or (heaven forbid, stopped and given the poor critter a chance to get across safely). Power corrupts and the power that cars give you, combined with the feeling of invulnerability of being inside a steel cage, I think brings out aggressive, anti-social tendencies in too many people. Not all people, mind you. There are plenty of good and great drivers out there, but it seems to me that some regions have a high percentage of these lunatics and there are more and more of them all the time.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:44 PM   #2620
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgCqz...e_gdata_player

A mental release for when knuckle dragging mouth breathers refuse to listen to reason.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:54 PM   #2621
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeHCq...e_gdata_player

A video to placate the knuckle dragging mouth breathers.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #2622
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Originally Posted by kbasa View Post
Bike lanes. You see smooth pavement. I see broken glass, tree debris, sand and gravel and all the other detritus that gets rolled off the road. When I can do so safely, I'm all about the bike lane. If I think I'm going to be in danger by riding there, I'm going to ride right on the verge of the right lane or maybe in it. Sorry, man, but you'd probably rather not have me take a tumble right in front of you in a spot where you'll wind up hitting me with your car/bike/truck/rickshaw.
I don't know how it is down there, but here it isn't that bad. I hear the exact same complaints from the locals and I call their BS. I have rode a bicycle for two years as my main means of transportation. Yes I did use the same streets as they complain about and no, never had a big problem. In two years I never had to avoid the bike lane for anything longer then a couple of feet. Certainly never seen any need to avoid it for miles.

Besides, if you can't handle glass, tree debris, sand, gravel on a bicycle, how in the world do you expect to handle them on a motorcycle?
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:34 PM   #2623
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Originally Posted by Digasi View Post
I don't know how it is down there, but here it isn't that bad. I hear the exact same complaints from the locals and I call their BS. I have rode a bicycle for two years as my main means of transportation. Yes I did use the same streets as they complain about and no, never had a big problem. In two years I never had to avoid the bike lane for anything longer then a couple of feet. Certainly never seen any need to avoid it for miles.

Besides, if you can't handle glass, tree debris, sand, gravel on a bicycle, how in the world do you expect to handle them on a motorcycle?
I agree, people around here complain about it too on the same roads that I ride on. I have never been thrown to the ground from running over a piece of gravel. If it is such a danger maybe they should get some bigger tires.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:53 PM   #2624
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Besides, if you can't handle glass, tree debris, sand, gravel on a bicycle, how in the world do you expect to handle them on a motorcycle?
Umm you don't ride a road/race bicycle? The difference is the thickness of the rubber between the tube and the road... I get a LOT more flats on the bicycles compared to the motorcycles.

The mountain bicycle slick tyres are about twice the thickness of the 700c 23mm tyres ....
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:53 PM   #2625
k-moe
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Here in washington state, bicycles are vehicles with the same rights, and obligations to obey traffic laws.

Cyclists are legally permited to ride side by side, and may use the travel lane when they can keep up with traffic, otherwise they are required to move right as far as safety allows. If they can't clear the lane then the 5 vehicle law comes into effect. If you come up behind a slower vehicle, you are required to slow until it is safe and legal to pass. If you are a slow vehicle and are delaying 5 or more vehicles you are required to clear the roadway as soon as possible.

IMO both cyclists and motorists are forgetting their rights come with responsibilities.
Only one thing wrong with that that I can see, (and it's a nitpick, but a valid one) driving is not a right, it's a privilege that is earned, which requires a greater adherence to the responsibilities that are required to retain the privilege.
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