ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-09-2011, 05:24 PM   #361
High Country Herb
Adventure Connoiseur
 
High Country Herb's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Western Sierras
Oddometer: 7,773
Quote:
Originally posted by Gummee!
Oh, and those that kvetch that 'I came around a corner and there they were!' need to stop outriding or outdriving their sight lines.
Even assuming you are right, it's no fun to be dead right. Riding in the traffic lane beyond a blind curve is asking for trouble. I almost always ride within my sight lines, but once in a while make mistakes. Many drivers seem to make mistakes all day long. Don't let them get you just to prove a point.

I would imagine blocking traffic might also trigger laws about impeding the flow of traffic. I read somewhere that slow traffic must pull over once a certain number of vehicles are behind them. The law was intended for motorhomes and such, but probably applies for any vehicle using the road. When I ride a bicycle on the street (as little as possible), there are times when I will stop and wait off the road while traffic goes by. I have been hit by a car while riding inches from the curb, so for me, it is practicable to ride all the way into the bushes...
High Country Herb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:31 PM   #362
lemieuxmc
Banned
 
lemieuxmc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East La Jolla... it's just Clairemont!!
Oddometer: 3,360
"Just because you're oblivious to your dangerous driving, doesn't make the cyclists at fault"

While this is true, unfortunately it's the cyclist who "takes possession of the lane" who pays the price for the dangerous driving of oblivious dumbasses!
lemieuxmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:32 PM   #363
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,660
All of the junk that falls on the road gravitates to the gutter/hard shoulder. Better to stay at least a foot into the lane and avoid flats.
__________________
15 BMW RnineT
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:33 PM   #364
lemieuxmc
Banned
 
lemieuxmc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East La Jolla... it's just Clairemont!!
Oddometer: 3,360
Better to run heavier tires and tubes and avoid being flattened...
lemieuxmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:34 PM   #365
jaybotas
n00b
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Oddometer: 2
Don't look at them when you pass, I did that once and did the target fixation thingy
jaybotas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:44 PM   #366
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirespin View Post
Yeesh. How about quoting the entire regulation, instead of cherry picking the parts you want bicyclists to follow?
i was responding to the cherry-picked (by another poster) part that the other poster was trying to say said something it clearly does not in order to justify a cyclist riding whereever he wants in the lane.

so, yes, i used his cherry picked regulation to show it didn't say what he claimed it said.

Quote:
So, a bicyclist "taking the lane" on a narrow road to prevent unsafe passing, would argue (correctly in my mind) that staying right is unsafe and hence meets the law.
perhaps it does. that's up to a judge.

nonetheless, the statute lays out a rule that cyclists are to follow when deciding where to ride in the lane. (if it did not, the statute would not exist.)

Quote:
Finally, the entire section explicitly applies to all vehicles,
no, it doesn't. it only applies to any vehicle moving slower than the normal rate of speed.

Quote:
By your interpretation, you are required to hug the curb when you are on your motorcycle.
if i am travelling slower than the normal rate of speed, then i am required to hug the curb. further, i should hug the curb so people can pass me. it would be quite selfish of me to make everyone else travel slowly just because of me.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:45 PM   #367
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
All of the junk that falls on the road gravitates to the gutter/hard shoulder. Better to stay at least a foot into the lane and avoid flats.
that is certainly reasonable, imho.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:48 PM   #368
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
Better to run heavier tires and tubes and avoid being flattened...
Back when I rode seriously, it was on an extremely light bike with 700C tires. No such thing as heavy tires. You just stay out of the gutter.
__________________
15 BMW RnineT
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:48 PM   #369
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I've got a buddy that goes to PGH lots. Wanna go riding with him and see the difference between 'practicable' and 'possible?'

Variation on the 'don't bitch till you've ridden X miles in my cycling shoes.' IOW there's reasons we/I do what we/I do.
if there is a legitimate (ultimately, in the eyes of a judge) reason, then you are not violating the statute.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:04 AM   #370
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 28,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
if there is a legitimate (ultimately, in the eyes of a judge) reason, then you are not violating the statute.
What's a judge got to do with the debris on the side of the road? Crumbling shoulders? Cracks? Holes? He's not there when we/I'm riding.

I'm CERTAINLY not gonna pull one around in a Burley trailer!

Try this for an experiment: ride your moto at 20-ish mph as far right as you think is practicable and come back and tell me how far into the lane you're riding. Bet it isn't on the fog line.

Even better: make it a point to ride 20mph on some of the roads the bicycles are riding on and see what car drivers do to you as you're trying to 'stay out of their way.' See where they try and pass. See how close they come. Even if you're not pedaling, it'll still open yer eyes.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:23 AM   #371
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
What's a judge got to do with the debris on the side of the road? Crumbling shoulders? Cracks? Holes?
a judge factors in because there is a law (in PA) that says you have to ride as far to the right as practically possible. if you get a ticket for not doing that, or if you are in an accident and there are charges or litigation, it will end up in court and a judge will decide whether or not you were riding as far to the right as practically possible.

that is how the american legal system works...like it or not.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 06:13 PM   #372
Tirespin
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Tirespin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Where the Muk is Heckilteo?
Oddometer: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
a judge factors in because there is a law (in PA) that says you have to ride as far to the right as practically possible.

that is how the american legal system works...like it or not.
Again - there is no law that says that. Picking one fragment from an entire section does not work.

Bicycle riders, like motorcycle riders, face a number of risks that the rest of the world doesn't. Sometimes the best way to mitigate the risks is counterintuitive, and that's the case when "taking the lane". If you hug the right curb in a narrow street, you invite cars to attempt to pass in very narrow, dangerous slots. The car's driver has no sense of the danger, since he's fully caged, and if he's in a bit of a hurry, or angry, or otherwise has judgement impaired, the bicyclist can be killed with little to no consequence to the driver. Taking the lane has it's own risks, but in some cases, it's the best bet.

If you can't see the parallels in risk management to riding a motorcycle, then you are blind and/or a simpleton. I'm guessing that when you drive your motorcycle, you think nothing of running a bicyclist off the road, and when you're driving your F250, you think nothing of running motorcyclists off the road.

Ok, I'll stop with the incendiary counter-attacks. But, please keep in mind, regardless of the legal status of a rider or driver's actions, intentionally endangering that person is wrong. Don't justify it with self-righteousness, callousness, road-rage, or whatever.
__________________
Skip 2010 KTM 990 Adventure R Fuel and Maint Log
Tirespin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 09:10 PM   #373
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirespin View Post
Again - there is no law that says that.
yes there is.

tell you what...quote the statute and tell me phrase by phrase what you think it says.

Quote:
Picking one fragment from an entire section does not work.
show me the section that changes what that says then.


Quote:
Bicycle riders, like motorcycle riders, face a number of risks that the rest of the world doesn't. Sometimes the best way to mitigate the risks is counterintuitive, and that's the case when "taking the lane". If you hug the right curb in a narrow street, you invite cars to attempt to pass in very narrow, dangerous slots. The car's driver has no sense of the danger, since he's fully caged, and if he's in a bit of a hurry, or angry, or otherwise has judgement impaired, the bicyclist can be killed with little to no consequence to the driver. Taking the lane has it's own risks, but in some cases, it's the best bet.

If you can't see the parallels in risk management to riding a motorcycle, then you are blind and/or a simpleton. I'm guessing that when you drive your motorcycle, you think nothing of running a bicyclist off the road, and when you're driving your F250, you think nothing of running motorcyclists off the road.
none of that matters one frickin' iota when it comes to what the statute says. a judge may or may not consider any of that as a factor in determining whether you could have practicably been riding closer to the curb.

Quote:
Ok, I'll stop with the incendiary counter-attacks. But, please keep in mind, regardless of the legal status of a rider or driver's actions, intentionally endangering that person is wrong. Don't justify it with self-righteousness, callousness, road-rage, or whatever.
what the hell are you talking about? who said anything about intentionally endangering anyone?

you can bring in all this other crap, but it doesn't change what the statute, quite clearly, says.
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 09:46 AM   #374
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 28,072
Watch out folks



More:
Lees-McRae Cyclist Killed in Head-on Crash with ASU Student PDF Print
Written by Steve Frank
Thursday, 15 December 2011 10:21 PM

A Lees-McRae cyclist was killed in a head-on collision with an ASU student heading home for the holidays. The 2:25pm collision occurred on US 221 south of Camp Creek Road in Avery County when the 98 ford Ranger of Mitchell James Epley, 19, of Marion, went left of center traveling south and struck the bicycle that Glynne Megan Baab—also 19— was riding. Baab, from Euless, Texas, was rushed from the scene by an entourage of Avery fire, first responders and medics to a landing zone where she was airlifted to the Johnson City Medical Center by WINGS Air Rescue, but she was pronounced dead soon after arrival at the medical center. A posting by Lees-McRae President Barry Buxton said that the freshman cyclist was on a training ride at the time of the accident. Trooper Allen Greer cited Mitchell Epley with misdemeanor death by vehicle in Baab’s death, reporting that Epley said he fell asleep at the wheel after completing his exams at ASU.
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 10:07 AM   #375
lemieuxmc
Banned
 
lemieuxmc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East La Jolla... it's just Clairemont!!
Oddometer: 3,360
Very tragic and sad loss.

Is it known if this cyclist was riding on the far right portion or in the center of the lane?

Knucklehead coming across the center line is pretty much unavoidable in either case.
lemieuxmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014