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Old 06-06-2012, 07:24 PM   #1081
Onederer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardpackrider View Post

2) I kno we have laws here and that's what makes the country one of the greatest in the world.. but I had just watched the Globeriders EuroAsian DVD, where they were traveling thru China... and how amazing it was to watch this organic, size-determined (biggest vehicles rule, it goes trucks>cars>MC>bikes>pedestians)..flow of every type of vehicle imaginable, how there are no traffic rules.. and yet how everyone watches out for themselves and deals with it. Laws or no laws, I'm as exposed as a bicycle, being on my GSA, and yes I've been pulled in front of/cut off/not seen..etc.. it just seems like part of the deal. u can't control cages, you have to watch out for them. to each his own, if this guy thinks he did anything but reinforce the bad vibes btwn cyclists, MC's vs cages.. I don't see it.
Do you realize that you just said that the people who have more money should have the right of way and that everyone looking out for themselves instead of each other is the way to go?

The laws in this country are there to protect those who have less and are more vulnerable, even if they don't always work as intended. Having to "deal with it," may be the norm in some parts of the world based on their socioeconomic status, but I am glad it is something that is strongly fought against here.

Not aimed at just you hardpack rider, but the whole water bottle topic sounds a bit one sided to me. The driver of the vehicle may have been just as lucky that all he got was water on the glass. The comments about the cyclist being lucky he didn't get some form of redneck justice is just another way to belittle cyclist as if they are less than human because of their choice of transportation.

Why would anyone assume a cyclist is some weakling that can be easily defeated in a physical confrontation? Especially by a person who likely does not live a healthy lifestyle or is in good health and couldn't climb a few flights of stairs without stopping for a break. I think those assumptions show the mindset of automobile drivers who have an artificial sense of superiority, which is quickly stripped away when confronted with reality. To say either person would win based on the vehicle they are operating is just not sane.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:25 PM   #1082
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Frankly, I'm surprised this Thread exists out of the basement!

I'll say it again. IMO, all road users have a responsibility to not kill/maim/seriously injure the other users of the road..even if the other users are complete jackasses.

Anticipate the unexpected.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:04 PM   #1083
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1:55 on the road tonite and no real egregious idiots on the road. I was in a group and we'd spread across the road some and had people passing in somewhat inappropriate places, but it was on a back road so not a lot of oncoming traffic



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Old 06-06-2012, 09:05 PM   #1084
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And I'll say that: ALL road users (and that means your "Drive like your kids live here" kids, too) should ALL be required to have a license plate and pay all applicable road taxes and follow ALL the rules and regulations that the rest of the road users pay for.


So tag yer damn kids! Or let them play in YOUR yard!
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:27 PM   #1085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joef View Post
So wrong on your statement, other cyclist's who witnessed the accident were dumbfounded at what he ( the cyclist was trying to do ) and one of them even asked me how I was doing.
Maybe the cyclists here would be more likely to believe you and sympathize if you hadn't led with this:

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You should be able to hit one once a year
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:06 AM   #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
1:55 on the road tonite and no real egregious idiots on the road. I was in a group and we'd spread across the road some and had people passing in somewhat inappropriate places, but it was on a back road so not a lot of oncoming traffic



M
So, you were in a group riding situation, splayed out across the road, giving no room for other vehicles to pass you (like there would be if you were all traveling single file)...yet you complain about "people passing in somewhat inappropriate places"...

Ya see, that's the mentality that's helping create the animosity between road users.
I'm sure if you guys rode single file, the risk to everyone would be minimised as the other vehicles could maybe (I say maybe because I can't see the exact situation so, I surmise) pass in a safer manner.
Instead the herd of cyclists create an unsafe situation, blocking the flow of traffic. (?)
Do you guys really think the other road users WANT to pass in an unsafe manner and put their own lives at risk as well?

For clarification...what were the "somewhat inappropriate places"?

If one of you were hit by one of those other vehicles, I'm sure it would be all their fault, right? (even though you guys "splayed out" helped create an unsafe situation)
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:07 AM   #1087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oznerol View Post
Maybe the cyclists here would be more likely to believe you and sympathize if you hadn't led with this:
The, you should be able to hit one once a year was dry humor on my part and I see how it could be taken out of text on the web, but it has to be taken for what its worth, its a forum. Bottom line is I live with this annoyance almost every weekend because I live on their training route with tight twisty steep hills and at times I feel they don't care about their surroundings but only their workout, local law enforcement has even confronted the shop they ride out of because I was not the first one to take one out and other residents are complaining on a regulat basis. I don't care where or what they do but when you take up an entire lane with no way safely to go around and do this the entire way up the hill consistently, well you have to wonder about their intent to control traffic which is unfair and unsafe..
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:42 AM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartmyNx View Post
And I'll say that: ALL road users (and that means your "Drive like your kids live here" kids, too) should ALL be required to have a license plate and pay all applicable road taxes and follow ALL the rules and regulations that the rest of the road users pay for.


So tag yer damn kids! Or let them play in YOUR yard!
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:45 AM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post

If one of you were hit by one of those other vehicles, I'm sure it would be all their fault, right? (even though you guys "splayed out" helped create an unsafe situation)

I would say that they (the unsafe passer) would be no more at fault than if they were to strike any other slow moving vehicle while passing in an unsafe manner.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:19 AM   #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onederer View Post
Do you realize that you just said that the people who have more money should have the right of way and that everyone looking out for themselves instead of each other is the way to go?
Because the fact of wealth implies superiority. How did they become wealthy if not for the fact of that? So surely superior people have right of ways over sub-humans or inferiors. This is the natural order as shown by Darwin and others. Laws do protect inferiors unless the superior says that in this instance, the law shouldn't apply. Then it doesn't.

As to your other comment about why cagers in large smelly diesel trucks think they can prevail over bicyclists in a physical brawl - the answer is again, obvious. If a person is too cowardly to drive a large diesel truck, he will surely run from any fight so the question of conditioning is moot. He will always turn tail and flee in an aggression.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:20 AM   #1091
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Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post
I would say that they (the unsafe passer) would be no more at fault than if they were to strike any other slow moving vehicle while passing in an unsafe manner.
You missed the point of speculation here that it's the cyclists that are really the ones who might be CREATING the ...unsafer...condition.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:29 AM   #1092
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
You missed the point of speculation here that it's the cyclists that are really the ones who might be CREATING the ...unsafer...condition.
Impatience causes the unsafe situation in these instances, not cyclists. No one is forcing an unsafe pass.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:35 AM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
So, you were in a group riding situation, splayed out across the road, giving no room for other vehicles to pass you (like there would be if you were all traveling single file)...yet you complain about "people passing in somewhat inappropriate places"...

Ya see, that's the mentality that's helping create the animosity between road users.
I'm sure if you guys rode single file, the risk to everyone would be minimised as the other vehicles could maybe (I say maybe because I can't see the exact situation so, I surmise) pass in a safer manner.
Instead the herd of cyclists create an unsafe situation, blocking the flow of traffic. (?)
Do you guys really think the other road users WANT to pass in an unsafe manner and put their own lives at risk as well?

For clarification...what were the "somewhat inappropriate places"?

If one of you were hit by one of those other vehicles, I'm sure it would be all their fault, right? (even though you guys "splayed out" helped create an unsafe situation)
We'll put it this way: the hill we were somewhat splayed out on was one of those narrow enough to have no center line.

Somewhat inappropriate places = up and over rises in the road that the car drivers couldn't see over as well as around corners they couldn't see around. There were big enough gaps between the groups of 2-4/5 that they didn't need to drive on the opposite side of the road except ...its 1800-1830 and people are trying to get home...

I've passed cyclists in these situations. Hop around one group. Stop till you can see again. Hop around the next group. Repeat till yer done. You don't have to go round the entire 1/2mi string at one shot.

Which brings me round to 'single file riding is safer.' No, actually its not. You get a really long line of riders going up the road and people do what we had yesterday evening: they jump out to pass and stay LOC till they're around the pack regardless of whether they can see or not.

Funny enough, going down the other side of the hill it got even more spread out into onesies and twosies and despite me going 35 in a 45 people STILL passed around blind corners. Yeah, Volvo wagon driver, I'm talking to you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post
Impatience causes the unsafe situation in these instances, not cyclists. No one is forcing an unsafe pass.
Sure I did! I held a gun to their head and made em drive over there. Ask em. They'll tell you.

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Old 06-07-2012, 06:36 AM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
Because the fact of wealth implies superiority. How did they become wealthy if not for the fact of that? So surely superior people have right of ways over sub-humans or inferiors. This is the natural order as shown by Darwin and others. Laws do protect inferiors unless the superior says that in this instance, the law shouldn't apply. Then it doesn't.

As to your other comment about why cagers in large smelly diesel trucks think they can prevail over bicyclists in a physical brawl - the answer is again, obvious. If a person is too cowardly to drive a large diesel truck, he will surely run from any fight so the question of conditioning is moot. He will always turn tail and flee in an aggression.
Now that's funny. Keep it up!



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Old 06-07-2012, 06:40 AM   #1095
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joef View Post
well you have to wonder about their intent to control traffic which is unfair and unsafe..
Being one of those 'control traffic' types, I'd say that's exactly what they're doing. If you can't see past em, its not safe to pass. Nicht war?!

See my last post re: single file lines of riders actually being less safe. That's IME over the last 20 years of riding.

Remind me to tell y'all about the truck trying to pass a group of 100+ on the SDBC ride one day. THAT almost ended with a lot of bodies flying.

M
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