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Old 05-19-2015, 11:13 AM   #1
flemsmith OP
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Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Apache Junction, Az
Oddometer: 687
Bad mechanical Guzzi Feng Shei

Only put 1500 miles on it since the rebuild, yesterday just running a few errands, bike's running fine, then kablam! The kinda mechanical noises that make you look for a spot to park it so you can go get the trailer and bring it home. Here's the bike:

So I start looking this morning, yank the plugs (right one is quite oily, never saw that before), valve covers, alternator cover, turn the engine manually, pistons going up and down, valves operating ok...Left cyl at the 'S' for TDC; intake is .006", exh .009". Seems fine. Right cyl at the 'D' (in my case, I seem to remember not being able to see the D, it's just a line) intake is .025", exh is .022"! and as I rotate a little further, there's a definite binding. Guess I'm yanking the right cylinder, or at least the head. Anything else I should do first? (I'll do this at my usual semi glacial speed.)
roy
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:12 PM   #2
F_Sahms
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Drop the sump and look for chunks? You can see a lot from under there.
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:18 PM   #3
flemsmith OP
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Yeah, that's easy enough....I pulled it, there's nothing in the oil or the sump, except for some shiny metallic coloring that's too small to be anything but normal wear on a fairly new engine. Guess I'll pull the head off tomorrow.

roy
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:37 PM   #4
flemsmith OP
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Couldn't wait til tomorrow, started pulling the head, and when I got the carb off, this was laying in the intake manifold...

Looking back thru the intake, that's clearly part of the valve seat. Fair amount of pulverized stuff in both intake and exhaust tracts. Otherwise, the exhaust looks normal. Head is ready to come off, just needs a little persuading, but I figured I'd better bone up on gentle methods of persuasion...fer instance, shouldn't I take off the little o'rings around the cylinder studs first? What else, other than beat it with my rubber hammer?
I know next to nothing about head fabrication....am I looking at a seat that's inserted, or is that probably just part of the head? Meaning is it likely toast at this point? thx for any input, even condolences. roy

flemsmith screwed with this post 05-19-2015 at 11:51 PM
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:38 PM   #5
nick949eldo
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Originally Posted by flemsmith View Post
Head is ready to come off, just needs a little persuading, but I figured I'd better bone up on gentle methods of persuasion...fer instance, shouldn't I take off the little o'rings around the cylinder studs first? What else, other than beat it with my rubber hammer?
I know next to nothing about head fabrication....am I looking at a seat that's inserted, or is that probably just part of the head? Meaning is it likely toast at this point? thx for any input, even condolences. roy
Don't forget the head bolt that is hidden beneath that big nut between the rocker arms. It takes a really large hex key, once you have the cover nut off. And the one by the spark plug hole. 6 head bolts in all. No amount of bashing will get the head off unless you've got all the bolts loose.

Nick
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:50 PM   #6
flemsmith OP
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Yeah, I got all 6, so that's not my issue. I haven't really tried very hard yet. Guess I will yank the orings off. tomorrow.

roy
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:52 PM   #7
smoky
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After you got all six head bolts off, then the o-rings .

A few raps with a rubber hammer, the head should lift right off.

The barrels are a little tighter, need a bigger hammer.

remember to take pics.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:55 AM   #8
FR700
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Originally Posted by flemsmith View Post
I know next to nothing about head fabrication....am I looking at a seat that's inserted, or is that probably just part of the head? Meaning is it likely toast at this point? thx for any input, even condolences. roy
Looks like the insert dropped out.

Depending on what carnage the valve and the insert managed to do, you may get away with using an over sized insert. The shop will check to see if the valve guide got a touch up in the process. If the guide is OK, they'll cut the new seat, and that'll be that. Odds are the valve itself is now bent, but you never know.

Cross ya fingers that the piston is salvageable. Check the rod and bearings.


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Old 05-20-2015, 08:47 AM   #9
flemsmith OP
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Sometimes it takes a little issue to remind you of how stupid you are...

Inside of right cyl...ok, so when I first heard definite bad noise, pulled over in a bad spot with lotsa traffic. Didn't see any external issue, and didn't like where I was, so I started it back up and went a few blocks to a spot where I could leave it and go get my truck/trailer. Not a real bright move in retrospect...

side view of intake valve... The cyl wants to come off the piston now, and I don't see much downside to doing that, so I'll yank that off too. Here's the best pix I could get of the top of the piston down in the bore.

I'm thinking this bike may be off the road for awhile...Not a good feeling to know I contributed to this level of carnage. later. roy
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:47 AM   #10
lrutt
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wow, that does suck. Only other bike I had heard of for dropping seats were some of the big XR Honda Singles
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:05 AM   #11
XLRacer
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wow, that does suck. Only other bike I had heard of for dropping seats were some of the big XR Honda Singles
Those also had a nasty habit of dislodging part of the choke plate in the carb and sucking it into the intake.

OP, due to all the debris that appears to be in the top end, I'd recommend a really good hard look at the bottom end of the motor also to be sure all the debris only stayed in the top part.

On the plus side, looks like a displacement increase via bore is in order.
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:37 AM   #12
flemsmith OP
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I was already at 949cc.

Guess I may be looking at a new set of Gilardoni's....

roy
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:00 AM   #13
XLRacer
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I was already at 949cc.

Guess I may be looking at a new set of Gilardoni's....

roy
Or a new sleeve dropped into the cylinder and a new piston, since you're already bored. Should be able to find someone to do that for you. I think the name of a company is LA Sleeve, they can custom make just about anything sleeve related and install it into your cylinder. Total Seal can custom make any piston rings you need, JE pistons has a pretty good selection of stuff too. All kinds of resources to repair things like this!
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:53 PM   #14
F_Sahms
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Ouch. Sorry about that.

If it's any consolation, the heads between small-valve 949 and 850 are the same, and should be easy to find.
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:54 PM   #15
Scudman
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I was already at 949cc.

Guess I may be looking at a new set of Gilardoni's....

roy
I just bought a set of cylinders from Germany and the 949cc kit bolts right up with no drama. They were substantially cheaper than in the US.
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