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Old 10-14-2012, 12:01 PM   #76
Mambo Dave
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Thanks for the write up and pics Bad Dad!

Man, if I lived where you lived, or even south, a full leather riding suit would still be my preferred choice.

I'm more depressed about my mesh gear for south Florida now, but if it wasn't for it I don't think I'd even be riding.

If I could only try out a well-perforated leather jacket, first, to see if I could stand it in 90 degree, 100% humidity days...
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #77
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Bad Dad,

That's one heck of a crash! Glad you came out ok for the most past. Mesh gear just scares me in general even though it may be suitable for really hot weather...
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #78
Dan Alexander
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I knew there was pain involved

Actually you did really well, lesser crashes can still be fatal

BTW, I've still got scars from burns like that after crashing at the track in full leathers from the mesh nylon lining.

Looking at the after pic reminds me of riding with some guys in the Adirondacks and one guy wipes out and breaks the forks and steering stem right off the frame on a GSXR and you can see how beefy they are .
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:41 PM   #79
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Yeah, I really got off easy on that one, stayed on the road, didn't go flying into the trees that ear right on the edge of the road, no oncoming traffic, ect. All the gear and a pinch of good luck!. I replaced the mesh jacket with a full perf. leather Joe Rocket I got on closeout from motorcyclegear.com. Nothing fancy, but at least it's leather. It did good in some 90 degree heat in southern Ohio. I've got a one piece Berik Moto GP suit that I'd have been wearing but it seemed to have shrunk a size over the winter.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:58 AM   #80
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As far as textile goes, http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=517 outlines my crashing experience with Halvarssons Hi-Art material. It faired so well, that for any legal (or even up to 150 km/h) street riding, I don't hold it as less than leather. Surely, leather will be better in real high speeds, but that's not what I ride in on roads.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:33 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Alexander View Post
.......

Don't forget that textiles don't slide as well so on pavement it will cause a lot of tumbling where most injuries to the extremities happen. Ever watch a Moto GP rider, they usually just slide to a stop so it's only the intitial impact that causes the injury.
Dan Alexander, where can I read more about how textiles don't slide as well on pavement and cause tumbling injuries?
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:56 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
As ugly as it would be, has anyone ever seen a leather / textile mix ? The protection of leather in the most needed areas, the open flowing textile for cooling in others... and probably really, really ugly looking.
Not ugly at all. Check this Stadler TrackPro (GoreTex ProShell Cordura AND leather) http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=10

I have actually tried it recently at a Stadler dealer, it's on my Christmas shopping list. Excellent fit, nice features and confidence inspiring.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:18 AM   #83
Dan Alexander
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Dan Alexander, where can I read more about how textiles don't slide as well on pavement and cause tumbling injuries?
Wow, this is stuff I learned many years ago from moto magazine tests.

Not sure what google will show now.

Start here and keep going

https://www.google.ca/search?q=leath...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734081
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:58 PM   #84
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Wicked

Glad to see that the old thread is still alive...
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:04 PM   #85
Jim K.
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Not surprising... but if you wear full leathers where I live, you will suffer from heat stroke while riding.
+1. I broke down & invested in mesh after years of stopping to think which was more dangerous…passing out from heat stroke with the leather on, or riding in my t-shirt & staying reasonably alert. BTW… I've had this happen in Maine & Canada as well as the southland. August & humidity can be a bitch anywhere.
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Old 11-03-2014, 03:43 PM   #86
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Adding a few pics

Since I keep referring to this thread, I'm adding a few pics from the PDF file.

ADAC test setup - test dummy on dummy bike - dropoff at 100 km/h - ~ 50 m slide distance



Rukka with Armacore: worn through



Polo/Held cheap leather jeans:
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Old 11-03-2014, 04:09 PM   #87
Rgconner
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Well, at least you know your ass from your elbow!

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Old 11-03-2014, 05:45 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruesome View Post
Since I keep referring to this thread, I'm adding a few pics from the PDF file.

ADAC test setup - test dummy on dummy bike - dropoff at 100 km/h - ~ 50 m slide distance



Rukka with Armacore: worn through



Polo/Held cheap leather jeans:
isn't Armacore suppose to be the hot super protective fabric?

nice to see it compared to leather ...
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:05 PM   #89
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schmii



http://www.endurowanderer.de/pdf/kombitest.pdf

Interesting article testing motorcycle gear in three categories: cheap, medium and expensive textile/leather and a couple soft leather combinations.

They do 60/80/100kph testing in a real scenario. The results are at the bottom be sure to read their projected human-results at the end of each paragraph. Even the $2000+ rukka expects significant injury compared to standard leather. The note on hip armor missing from most equipment is interesting.


Top 5 picture:

Ejection phase 1: At 100 km tends the motorcycle to the side
Ejection phase 2: the dummy collides with Shoulders, hips and elbows ...
Ejection phase 3: ... and then slides behind the Mo Torrades ago
Discharge Phase 4: The dummy slides further, his position changed little
Discharge Phase 5: After about 50 meters he turns around the longitudinal axis

Main Article

The dummy did us really sorry. To 30 times He had to slip away from the motorcycle side . tilt Floundering he skidded on the tarmac along until He is in the final meters around its longitudinal axis finally turned and remained motionless. Then went ADAC investigator Ruprecht Müller on the impu- were successful too, looked at his position, assessed the visible damage to the protective clothing. The results results of the unprecedented, self-developed by ADAC based tests to determine the protective effect of Mo- torradbekleidung made ​​not only the experimenter pensive.

The wearing of protective clothing is under two-wheel fans one of the most controversial topics in general. The "Knights equipment "for the one kilometer long journey to the tank Create ask? Pooh! In jeans and leather jackets brisk the 40 miles over land to the jet-girlfriend? Both there, and in between lies an enormous range of more or less reasonable behavior. Finally, it is the risk of injury while riding a motorcycle to commen, significantly higher than when driving. Therefore remains as a protective helmet in addition, motorcycle gloves, and Only boots to wear appropriate clothing. Only it gives a minimum level of passive safety. Since approximately 15 years to compete more and more products from high-strength textile materials with the classic upper- leather material.

Both types of materials are also with Protectors combine the high-risk body completely skinned - shoulders, elbows, knees and hips - protect zen should. In particular, the development of breathable tive and waterproof membranes has the textile Suits given a tremendous boost. The temperature range in which they serve as convenient be seen in tables, is clearly wider than that of leather clothing.
But what about in terms of protection really effective? To Aussa- gene to come from practice, has ADAC of the shedding complex developed and tested such a system comparison between the textile and leather protective clothing made ​​possible. It did not go into this test so that Textile best or the worst-Le derkombi filter out: Rather dealt with the basic loading trachtung of simpler and thus Wagons cheaper in comparison with higher quality and more expensive Equipments. The price groups hei- need "to 350 €," "to 900 €" and "" more than 1000 €. In addition, tes- We ended with a simple one-Le derjeans combined casual leather- and a jacket made ​​of 'soft leather' made tour van.

The individual results find in the boxes on this and The following pages. Here's why the general findings of this Discharge test, which was aimed at an- NEN simple accident with an assumed exempt from injury severity AIS 1 means (: minor injuries such as superficial wounds, muscle enact etc.) pain. A "Low side" of slipping Motorcycle is typical. Exactly when Severity of these accidents can be protective clothing to show what they can - and she did well in the test.
The range of results range of "looks as if little what was "up to the total damage the. Had one instead of the dummy Man in one of the three textile Wagons plugged in, he would have in the two cheaper combos significant Suffered injuries, but even with the 1625-euro-Rukka ArmaX- The combination would not fall without Injuries departed.

Particularly important are the He- knowledge from the ADAC test because not only the upper material to its abrasion resistance was tested, but the overall system consisting of upper, protectorate Ren and - where applicable - Thermal lining. Whether in a combination inside when the glissade in- is said, makes a perceptible Baren difference! And the Location and size of the Protectors (ADAC expert Müller: "The larger more effective! ") is an extremely important factor.

These points apply to Textilkom- and as for leather garments. Last- but re-making their case in principle including significantly better: Even the GE- checked with the lowest leather combination second prize is named after the test, if auchmitEinschränkungen, further processed applicable, the Swabians leather combination for 1320 € shakes the procedure formally off. Unexpectedly good intersects the simple leather jeans from, and even the casual leather jacket by surprise. The soft leather combination less well protected.

Applies to all combos: Lack of good, large hip, dro- hen even at such a relatively slight fall severe bruises, In extreme cases, even cracking! Development decisive - and that is the important tant result of the ADAC tests - is not only the resistance of the material, but the overall conception of protective clothing. Gu te, as big-play protector len a very important role, < Moreover, the stability because it suture. increase And seams are always Weak points ...

But the most important It is located on two wheels of the basic risk- sikos to be aware of. In order to ensure and drive well - possibly even per- fect - to slow down, are safety training is important. The ADAC offers in approximately 60 locations. They protect at least as good as the most expensive "Armor" - the best accident is Finally, the still, the different- was avoided.

ULF BÖHRINGER.
Info Internet More information on the subject and many Tips on choosing the right motorcycle apparel at www.adac.de / motorcycle

Testing Procedure

EJECTION.

Dozens of times fell the dummy from the ADAC test moving motorcycle - in the form of a "Low side", as in lateral Slipping of a motorcycle, et- wa in the curve occurs. For the Eight critical evaluation Attempts have been one per cluster, at 100 kph on a distance piece with typical "friction-Béiwen th 'one Austrian Ver- completed traffic safety center. The wheels of his engine-deprived wheel was rotated by 70 degrees, thereby on a single axle trailer hitch device attached to it backwards could be swung, thereby The dummy was laterally from the Mo Torrades thrown. The slip distance the dummy from 100km / h was usually around 50 meters. The "test- driver "was dropped in front of each carefully in the driving position on the Bike fixed. All damage tions of the eight station wagons were carefully documented. Also, any damage to the Dum- my own were being held.

Friction: The test machine in the Technical University of Darmstadt
For all the experiments were Equipment in the exemplary double- confirmation was bought commercially. Because in addition to the ADAC had the protective clothing testing machine ne of the TU Darmstadt, Department of Vehicle technology, laboratory tests . perform It was load- processing conditions attached, the for a 75 kilogram Motorcyclists are realistic, the on the back of the asphalt slipped. For the simpler textile samples were 60 km / h Output tempo chosen for the high-important 80 km / h, for the Lederpro- ben 100 km / h. It was also necessary the protectors one impact test that will survive the CE- Standards was ajar. In Be- consideration of the rate keitsunterschiede corresponded to the Results of laboratory tests largely basis the results of the ADAC Drop tests. However, these are meaningful, because it the Overall system of clothing and Protectors was tested.

Gear, Results

Low Budget to 350 €

FLM Textile: The combination of Firefox Polo brand is made ​​of 500 D FLM upper
material manufactured; is on the jacket fall-prone areas AIRTENA 600 D materials used on the pants HITENA (both 100% polyamide). To- which there is at bottom an anti-slip Material. On the back there is one thin foam lining; at school ter, elbows and knees are CE Protectors are used. A Hüftpro- detector is missing. After the test, the com- bi a total loss. In humans are due to the buttocks and Hüftbe- NEN-rich resulting large hole appreciable skin-and-Weichteilverlet estimates expected. Also on the jacket resulted in a tear.

The FLM Firefox Jacket weighs 1620 grams and costs 170 €, the right Pants weighs 1530 grams and costs 140 €

FLM Leather: Leather (1.2 - 1.4 mm) is for the "Stream" combination of FLM is used. Stretch fabric from Polya-increases in some places the mid-Be mobilities. On the back of the jacket is there is a thin foam lining. Shoulders, elbows and knees indicate CE protectors on. Hip protectors are missing. After the test is 310 € cheap leather suit - albeit for of a crack near the elbow protector with restrictions - further usable. A person would have no significant skin or soft tissue injuries to be expected. Because of the lack of hip protectors is per- but the danger of severe bruises or fractures.

The "stream" -Jacket by FLM weighs 2180 Grams and cost- Tet 180 €, the matching trousers (1800 grams) costs 130 €

Medium price range to 900 € Stadler Textile: Jacket and pants are Cordura 500, on shoulders, elbows knees bent and comes Cordura 2000 are used. The seat of the pants has leather trim on one. Given the severe damage in the test can no longer use the combination be. A sleeve has four small Holes, and there is a crack. The upper material of the pants keeps the Load was not; on the right-Ge buttocks, hips and thighs are carried out all tissue layers ground, the protector is too small ground off the side. In humans there would be due to the size of the Lo- Ches significant skin and soft- some injuries

The Liberty GTX Jacket (2640 g) costs € 525, The Dragon GTX Pants (1810 g) is for 370 € to have

Dainese Leather: The "T. Haku," Combined Dainese is made ​​of cowhide, to stretch leather on the upper arm is and lower back. To increase mobility in some places Stretch fabric made ​​of 100 percent poly-amide. No back protector, CE Pro detectors at the shoulders, elbows and Kneel. Thin protective padding on the Hips. The combination may, under the test used with restrictions on be det. A person would have no significant skin or soft tissue To expect injuries. Though is due to the lack of fully valent hip increased Likelihood of bruising or Quarries.

The jacket of Dainese combined »T. Haku," weighs 2000 grams, the Trousers 2070 grams; the price of the com-bi is 790 €

High budget more than 1000 €

rukka Textile: The protection of the radio-tion-related upper-called Armacor (85% polyamide, 15% aramid). To Protective equipment including CE audited te cushion for back, shoulder, hip, Elbows and knees. Climate membrane is an XCR Gore-Tex 3-layer laminate. After the test is the combination ArmaX no longer usable. As problematic table has particularly through the the average height-related folds made out, giving effect to the Arma- cor-overloaded tissue locally, what then to a partially distinct Hole formation has led. In humans would be between at least mild skin and expect soft tissue injuries.

The ArmaX Jacket weighs from Rukka 2670 grams and costs € 925, pants (price: Weighs 700 €) 2220 grams

SchwabenQuellen leather: The combi "-Tom cat "consists exclusively of beef Leather (1.4-1.6 mm) and Kevlar stretch. inserts Included is a three-part Back Protection and geschlossenpori- GE polymer foam protectors for Shoulder, hip, elbow and knee. After testing, this combination was unrestricted Crossed usable, only their Optics has gelit by the grinding marks Ten. Even at highly-hazard tion zones of attrition was minimal. The upper material remained in all areas Chen concluded. Also, by high-quality protectors are compared equal the maximum protection factor GE . give By far the best result

The Swabian leather-jacket weighs 2610 grams, the pants 2450 grams The combined costs 1320 €

Soft leather and leather jeans

Held Leather: The Varano jacket and the Avolo pants are made ​​from soft cowhide leather with TFL Cool-manufactured equipment. To- additional protection is a thin-Rü ckenpolster give (CE-protectors on can be retrofitted), for shoulder, hip, elbow and knee protection pads are CE-different- turns. After the test, the hero- KombinurmitstarkenEinschränkungen more usable. The Softl- did not show the strength of the customary- engined leather suits. It is also the Creasing debt, they will be the average benefit. In humans would be slight skin injuries Result in formation of a hole-Gesäßbe expected range.

The hero Varano Jacket (2770 Gram costs) 330 €, the Avolo Pants (1640 Grams) for 250 Euro to have

POLO / Hero Leather: The Polo-Lederja Bridge "Ratrace Custom" is made ​​from beef nappa leather, it has no protectionism tor, but only foam rubber Protective padding on shoulders and Ellen- arc. The hero-leather jeans "Tucson" is cowhide and has no Other Operations gene on protection. After the test can Jacket and trousers with restrictions be used. Both parts of provide a fairly good result: the People would have no significant Skin and soft tissue injuries to he- . wait Because of the lack of protectionism tors is in the hip, however, the Strong likelihood of Prel- tions or breaks given.

The Ratrace Custom Leather Jacket by Polo (2320 g) costs € 190, The Tucson-leather jeans by Held (1350 g) 135 €

malamikigo
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:38 PM   #90
Kawasakirob
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Textile has its advantages in warmer weather of course but leather all the way. My jacket took a pounding in this crash but what really caught my attention were the gloves. An alcohol induced crash at 90mph on my favorite stretch of road. I have no doubt my hands would have been shredded if these gloves weren't on. Wrists, Pinkie, Knuckles, Everything. I also do not think the mesh gloves would have held up to the abuse in the same accident.





Was lucky to leave with no more than a separated shoulder after auguring into the ground.
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