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Old 04-25-2005, 05:58 AM   #46
malsin
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oil pump pins, thanks, etc.

First, thanks to Mark for the 5 of 5 write up. I completed this update on my 01 LC4 400 this weekend, with the old bearing from start of grinding bolts to out of the case in less than an hour. The new bearing went in just as easily using a scrap of oak board as the intermediary btw the hammer and the bearing. (BTW: my first thought and an auto tech friend's first thought when seeing Mark's posted picture of the old bearing: "That thing is missing a ball." No wonder failure caused(s) such problems.)


Puller observation: You will know the puller is working because tightening one nut will loosen the other two slightly. If the bolt is pulling out of the bearing on tightening, the other two nuts/bolts won't loosen.


Oil pump pin care:
- After you remove the left case cover, place some crumpled towels (paper or cloth) in the: (aluminum foil might work as well)
-- passage to the oil sump (you can see the dran plug if it is installed),
-- around kick start gear which allows access to transmission housing
-- perhaps Al foil around the crank, balance, etc to force pin to drop to ground instead of into engine case.

- rotate oil pump drive gears so that the visible bump in the plastic (either side of shaft) is horizontal. This bump on the outside is the indentation on the inside where the pin sits. When you pull the gear the pin will be horizontal and shouldn't slip out.

- Now remove the clip, washer, gear, and pin. (There is also a thin washer on the shaft between the pump cover and the gear (inside the pin). I didn't remove these as oil surface tension held them on just fine.)

Thanks to all for their posts and help. The homemade puller was a stroke of genious. Hope I don't need that knowledge in the future but now I have it.
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:47 AM   #47
Nom de Guerre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsin
Puller observation: You will know the puller is working because tightening one nut will loosen the other two slightly. If the bolt is pulling out of the bearing on tightening, the other two nuts/bolts won't loosen.
Yes, I noticed that as I worked my way around turning each nut 90 degrees at a time, the bearing would frequently give just a little. The first time this happened, I thought the puller arm ground end was pulling straight. I realized that the bearing was just coming out with little "slips" in order to stay straight and true in the case rather than getting cocked (and therefore stuck).


Quote:
Originally Posted by malsin
Oil pump pin care:

- rotate oil pump drive gears so that the visible bump in the plastic (either side of shaft) is horizontal. This bump on the outside is the indentation on the inside where the pin sits. When you pull the gear the pin will be horizontal and shouldn't slip out.
This is the key advice that I was going to post today along with a picture, but you have described it perfectly, maslin. Good job and congratulations on getting the bearing out!
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:54 AM   #48
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Great Thread,
I decided to change mine to preempt any possible probelms in the future, I Looked at what you guys had done and decided to check with Swampy Marsh down in Plymouth..He told me he could now change it in 20 minutes without spilling a drop of oil if necessary..so I let him do it and service the bike at the same time...

Bearing swap , full service, fork seals and oil changed and loads of coffee ..£200..now considering thats almost what Bracken charged me for the first service i was pretty happy.

Oh and the bearing that was removed showed no problems.
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:26 AM   #49
Activmoto
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I would recommend changing the bearing in the luxury of your own garage. I was changing the oil in my 20,000 mile 02 Adventurer and found metal on the sump plug magnet. At the time of the oil change I was in Moscow, Russia. Weighing up my options I decided to ride the 700 miles to the KTM importer in Helsinki.

They had all the parts and pulled the old bearing and put a new one in charging me only 270 euros including oil and filters.


The old ball bearing was in a bad state by the time it was removed, the ball cage was braking up and that is what I had found on the sump magnet. The outer race was badly worn.






You can just make out the broken roller cage.
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Old 05-20-2005, 11:52 PM   #50
Esteban
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I just finished pulling the old bearing and installing the new roller bearing. All that is left to do is buy the correct loctite and reassemble the parts. should take less than an hour - tomorrow though. BTW, the original ball bearing was in fine condition at 14K miles on my 99 640 LC4e. With the upgraded roller bearing installed I can stop worrying though.

I wanted to make a few observations :

The original instructions state "build a puller using 2" PVC pipe" .
The 2" pipe will not work since the bearing will not fit within. I used a "coupler" for 2" PVC pipe which has a slightly larger ID so the bearing does fit when pulling it. The coupler (connector for two 2" pipes) has two female ends and comes in a length sufficient to just clear the length of the mainshaft (about 3"). I bought it at Home Depot for 69 cents and it worked well.

Other than that all went perfectly. The mainshat nut is really on there tight. An impact driver was necessary - no way could I do it by hand even with an 18" breaker bar.
Watch out that the pins holding the oil pump gears do not slip into the inner tranny housing via the oil passage at the bottom of the cases - BEWARE.

It took me two tries to get the puller hooks just right. This did require careful grinding.

This article by Markjen made it a much easier job though. THANK YOU for the excellent write-up.

Esteban
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Old 05-21-2005, 08:32 AM   #51
Nom de Guerre
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Congrats Esteban on a job well done.

I was luckily able to get the main shaft nut off with a breaker bar, but it did require a little effort.

I heartily agree with you regarding the oil pump shaft pins. I did have one fall into one of the oil passages, and was able to extract it with a telescoping magnet (the kind that look like a magnet on a cheap radio antenna).

I wrote about that warning somewhere. Maybe earlier in this thread?? Sorry I'm too lazy to check right now.
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Old 10-23-2005, 06:09 PM   #52
stallspeed
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Help...........

Requesting assistance

After reading through all the pages, I realized that I'm not mechanically inclined to perform this task. I have an '01 LC4 SM with ~3,700 miles, and love it to death. I recently called my local KTM dealership and they said that they were going to have to split the case (no other way around it), and it was going to cost me approx. $900 big ones to have the job completed. I currently have the part on order.

I guess what I'm asking for is, if one of the many friendly helpful members on this site would be willing to help me do the main bearing replacement, I would be willing to compensate the individual for their valuable time, provide the tasty beverage of choice throughout the task, and would come and meet the person at their home or another location. I live in Pensacola, FL and would be willing to make the drive (whatever it takes, within reason ~8-9 hours) to keep my beloved LC4 SM. The last thing that I want to do is sell my bike because I can't afford the labor costs. I'm not even riding her right now, because I'm too afraid that the bearing is going to go.

If anyone is willing to help me out, it would really mean a lot. And then I wouldn't have to listen to my wife talk to me about how motorcycles and everything associated with it are costing us so much $. Thanks. Email me at ianstal@hotmail.com or PM me.
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Old 10-24-2005, 12:25 AM   #53
Donkey Hotey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stallspeed
The last thing that I want to do is sell my bike because I can't afford the labor costs. I'm not even riding her right now, because I'm too afraid that the bearing is going to go.
Man, don't let this stop you from riding your bike. My 96 Duke has 7K miles and the 97 Adventure is around 17K. To my knowledge, neither engine has been out (the Duke for sure). I read somewhere else in here that they believed the roller bearings lived just fine in off road bikes because they had lower loads on them at the lower speeds. High speed, high load road miles were theorized as the problem. Maybe true, maybe not, but there are a lot of bikes out there that are still running fine.

After this fine write-up, I'm going to plan to do mine but I won't stop riding the bike unless I find metal in the oil or start hearing noises. I'll probably do the clutch plates in my Adventure anyway so I'll replace the bearing then.

I guess the LC4 now has its own "doohickey" eh Esteban?
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Old 10-24-2005, 01:49 AM   #54
Esteban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCifu

I guess the LC4 now has its own "doohickey" eh Esteban?

We all have our faults Greg. I even have an extra helping.
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Old 10-24-2005, 07:16 AM   #55
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stallspeed
Requesting assistance

After reading through all the pages, I realized that I'm not mechanically inclined to perform this task. I have an '01 LC4 SM with ~3,700 miles, and love it to death. I recently called my local KTM dealership and they said that they were going to have to split the case (no other way around it), and it was going to cost me approx. $900 big ones to have the job completed. I currently have the part on order.

I guess what I'm asking for is, if one of the many friendly helpful members on this site would be willing to help me do the main bearing replacement, I would be willing to compensate the individual for their valuable time, provide the tasty beverage of choice throughout the task, and would come and meet the person at their home or another location. I live in Pensacola, FL and would be willing to make the drive (whatever it takes, within reason ~8-9 hours) to keep my beloved LC4 SM. The last thing that I want to do is sell my bike because I can't afford the labor costs. I'm not even riding her right now, because I'm too afraid that the bearing is going to go.

If anyone is willing to help me out, it would really mean a lot. And then I wouldn't have to listen to my wife talk to me about how motorcycles and everything associated with it are costing us so much $. Thanks. Email me at ianstal@hotmail.com or PM me.
Someone down there in Florida get a tech days together! BlitzBike? Or one of the others???

Might need to start a thread in this forum on your request. If that doesn't work, try the regional forum that includes Florida.
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Old 10-24-2005, 04:19 PM   #56
stallspeed
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCifu
Man, don't let this stop you from riding your bike. My 96 Duke has 7K miles and the 97 Adventure is around 17K. To my knowledge, neither engine has been out (the Duke for sure). I read somewhere else in here that they believed the roller bearings lived just fine in off road bikes because they had lower loads on them at the lower speeds. High speed, high load road miles were theorized as the problem. Maybe true, maybe not, but there are a lot of bikes out there that are still running fine.
I totally understand this, but the 01's and 02's are the LC4's that have known to have the main shaft bearings fail. And a majority of my riding is commuting to and from work, the occasional track day, and some minor off road riding.

Meat Popsicle,
I'm looking for any kind of help possible. I'm new to this forum, so I'm not to familiar with the in's and out's of who does what or where. If it's possible to start a new thread concerning this issue with this problem or with individuals who are in my situation, then's that's great with me. Just need some help. Please......
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:19 PM   #57
Donkey Hotey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban
We all have our faults Greg. I even have an extra helping.
Yes, well, I didn't buy that Tengai (was a total POS) so I'll have to stick to LC4 transmission bearings for now.
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Old 10-30-2005, 07:23 AM   #58
bmonnig
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I swapped bearings on my '00 Duke a few days ago, and I've got a question. The main shaft seems to be binding up on something. I installed the bearing, the shaft was binding a bit, but a tap with a hammer seemed to clear it up. I installed the inner race (top hat), tapped it into place, and the shaft bound up hard again.

According to my dial calipers, the bearing is sitting about .027" below flush. Is the clearance that tight, that 27 / 1000's will cause the shaft to seize that much? The bearing appears to be square in the hole.

If this IS the issue, any ideas on how to pull that bearing back out .027"?

It's definitely binding tight. I put the bike back together, and fired it up to see what happens. When I hold the clutch in (ie, the shaft isn't spinning), all is well. When I let the clutch out (and the clutch hub tries to spin the shaft), the bike will bog down and die. It's also hard to get into gear. Just for giggles, I put the bike in gear and rode it for 20 - 30'. When you let off the gas, it feels like you're hitting the brakes. That shaft / bearing / something is definitely dragging hard in there. No more running until it's fixed. :(

At this point, I'm going to open it back up and try to find a way to pull that bearing back out 0.027" I used the old bearing as a driver, and I thought I had it just flush. I forgot about the small beveling on the sides of the bearings, so that's how it went just a smidge beyond flush. I had no idea the clearance would be that tight on a simple support bearing.

Any tips / hints / suggestions would be welcomed. Worst case, I'll pull out / destroy this brand new bearing, and put a new one in. $90 is nothing compared to fragging an engine.

I just thought I'd add, I was able to pull the bearing WITHOUT having to drill / cut the ball carrier. I didn't want to introduce any metal debris into the engine, so I didn't want to cut through that race. Using a small flatblade screwdriver, I was able to just sort of 'lever' it around enough to fit the puller arms into the race.
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:05 AM   #59
Nom de Guerre
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Brandon,

I remember Drif10 had the same problem when he installed his new bearing some time ago, and he had some trouble pulling the bearing back some and freeing up the binding shaft. He initially feared he would have to split the cases to get the bearing out. I dug around and found the following quotation from a post of his on the KTMTalk "LC4 640 Main Shaft Bearing Removal/replacement" sticky thread. This quote is from page 11 of the thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drif10
So I went by Bart's house (the original Bart in this place, not that pretender Bartkim) and went sifting thru his tool boxes. One of the things I borrowed was a kingpin remover, which is like a large C clamp, but instead of a pad to screw against, it has a hollow end opposite the screw. I cranked the whole thing out, slipped the hollow end over the mainshaft, and secured the nut on the shaft.

A couple of good shots, and it was free.
Here's a link to that page of the thread:

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=44168&st=150

Good luck... and try to get the bearing removal kit back to Laramie asap.
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Old 11-06-2005, 09:34 PM   #60
bmonnig
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As mentioned by LC4Pilot, at least one other person had the misfortune of driving their bearing in a little too far. Drif10 mentioned the use of a "kingpin" tool to pull his bearing back out. This sounded like a quick, easy, cheap fix, if I could get it to work.

A quick scan of AutoZone's web page yielded this tool, which is part of their lend-a-tool program:

AutoZone ball joint tool

http://www.autozone.com/images/in_ou...ion/27023L.jpg



Though the tool rental is "free", this is only after you bring the tool back. Basically you pay full price (+ tax) for the tool when renting it, but the full price (plus tax) is refunded when you return the tool Since I used my Amex card, I knew I'd never see a charge to borrow the tool. Cash should be easy as well, but check might be a PITA. Anyway, I left AutoZone with this tool and high hopes.

I pulled the bike back down, but decided to leave the bearing retainer plate in place. I figured this would serve as a great way to make sure the bearing is indeed flush, as it's whole purpose is to keep the bearing from coming out. This also served another purpose: If the bearing backed up against this tool, and the shaft was still tight, I'd know I'm screwed. :(

I cut a length of rubber hose to slide over the output shaft. Probably unnecessary, but quick and easy to do. I'd rather do this and NOT need it, than damage that main shaft:



I then slid the tool onto the output shaft (covered by the rubber hose), placed a large (and thick) washer over the shaft, and then secured the locknut:





This now gave me a good way to get some force on the shaft, to try to extract / pull it the whole .027" that I needed. I pulled out the multipurpose persuasion tool and gave it a shot:



I was pretty wuss about it at first, just tapping on the clamp. No luck. I started to put a bit of meaning into the hits, and after 3-4 I checked the bearing. It was flush against the plate! Well, that part was done anyway. I tried to remove the locknut to check the shaft, only this was difficult to do. The shaft was spinning freely, so I couldn't get any torque on the nut.

WOOOOHOOOOO!

I pulled the nut, removed the washer / clamp / rubber hose, and confirmed that the shaft is spinning freely. No binding at all. SWEET!

I put the bike back together, fired it up, and noticed no issues. I meant to take it for a test ride today, but I didn't get around to it.

So, it looks like we have an inexpensive (free), easy method of extracing that bearing, should you overdrive it a little bit.

Please keep in mind I only needed to pull the bearing ~0.029". That's approx 1/32 of an inch. I don't think this will work if you overdrive a significant amount, so be VERY cautious when seating the bearing!
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