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Old 04-11-2012, 07:13 AM   #1396
Kropotkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post


isn;t this the translation of the italian version?
Correct.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:16 AM   #1397
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We even hired Uccio

There are surprising similarities to the truth in there


I think Casey would get a great laugh out of this one..
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:39 AM   #1398
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Rossi says--in so many words--Ducati needs a new engine
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:41 AM   #1399
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And Rossi tosses the gauntlet:

"It's very clear who makes our bike: [Filippo] Preziosi is the boss and the thinking brain behind everything. It's up to him to help us."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98702
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #1400
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I found his comments a bit disappointing.

Stoner should thank Ducati... How about Rossi and JB should apologize to Stoner and Gabbarini. 80 seconds my ass.

He said he wants to stay another 2 years at Ducati. I doubt you can change everything to something you never tried before yet again and come up with a championship winning bike in only 2 years. Ducati should stick to what they have experience with. Tradition is also important and Ducati should not poop on theirs. Call me an idiot but I would not even look at a new Moto Guzzi with the cylinders pointing any other way. There are Hondas, Yamahas and Suzukis for other options. And all 3 are great brands that make great bikes. When you chose a Moto Guzzi over the other 3 you have very specific reasons to do so.

I also don't think that a tiny company can beat 2 big ones at their own game. They were on the right track with the different frame and everything.

And in my eyes, Stoner has been cleared from another charge: not developing the bike. If an experienced Italian icon can't have his way at Ducati how much do you think they listened to a young Australian kid tormented by dairy products.

- "I think we should develop a narrower V engine."
- "Listen to him...a narrower V! Hehehe! Here is a toy Kangaroo. Go play in the gravel trap. A narrower V!? Kids these days..."
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:05 AM   #1401
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[QUOTE=Florin;18431760]
I doubt you can change everything to something you never tried before yet again and come up with a championship winning bike in only 2 years.

They did it in 2007!



I also don't think that a tiny company can beat 2 big ones at their own game.

And again, in 2007.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:30 AM   #1402
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[QUOTE=brents347;18431823]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florin View Post
I doubt you can change everything to something you never tried before yet again and come up with a championship winning bike in only 2 years.

They did it in 2007!



I also don't think that a tiny company can beat 2 big ones at their own game.

And again, in 2007.
/
The first they did it is more like he did it.

The second one does not really apply as Stoner rode a wonky trellis with a 90 degree V, not an aluminum frame with an I4. So back then Ducati were playing their own game. Last year they played their own game with the frame design and were 16 seconds behind in Qatar. Now they are playing the Honda and Yamaha game and are 33 seconds behind.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:43 AM   #1403
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[QUOTE=Florin;18432024]
Quote:
Originally Posted by brents347 View Post

The first they did it is more like he did it.

The second one does not really apply as Stoner rode a wonky trellis with a 90 degree V, not an aluminum frame with an I4. So back then Ducati were playing their own game. Last year they played their own game with the frame design and were 16 seconds behind in Qatar. Now they are playing the Honda and Yamaha game and are 33 seconds behind.
Not correct. Rossi was 33 seconds behind. Nicky, something much less, no?

When speaking of Stoner, yes HE did it. But HE did it on THEIR bike.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:59 AM   #1404
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Originally Posted by brents347 View Post

Not correct. Rossi was 33 seconds behind. Nicky, something much less, no?

When speaking of Stoner, yes HE did it. But HE did it on THEIR bike.
And THEIR bike bike was exactly that! Their bike, not a Japanese copy!

That is what I am trying to say! They should build their bike, not an aluminum twin spar with an I4 or a 70 something degree V4. If you come up with your own idea, that idea will have strengths and weaknesses that are different from the strengths and weaknesses of the big companies. This way you have a chance to come out on top when everything is added up and they draw the line.

If you do the same thing, there is a good chance that your strengths and weaknesses are somewhat similar to the strengths and weaknesses of the big companies. And those companies have the money, the testing equipment and the manpower to improve the strengths and iron out the weaknesses. They will always be a small step in front of you.

Yes, Hayden was only 28 and a half seconds behind. Not 33. They should be ok with that. My bad.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:15 PM   #1405
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"An Aussie kid tormented by dairy products"
HEE!HEE!HEE! I had visions of a little bloke chased around the paddock by tubs of yoghurt with legs!

I'm with Florin. Ducati's are L-motors with trellis frames. They have been through countless WSBK titles, a MotoGP title, and have been more than competitive up until recently. The fact the bike doesn't suit every riders personal taste is no reason to develop a "bum bike" (everyone's got one.........), the trellis concept allows plenty of adjustment for tension, and if they have to make a new frame every time the engine physical specs change, so what? If I can weld up an exhaust in the dirt in a week for a mates I-4 or my own V-4, then I rekn they probably have someone capable within their organization to do the same with a frame given their capabilities.

Get Troy Bayliss out there to fix the thing........
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:18 PM   #1406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florin View Post
I found his comments a bit disappointing.

Stoner should thank Ducati... How about Rossi and JB should apologize to Stoner and Gabbarini. 80 seconds my ass.

He said he wants to stay another 2 years at Ducati. I doubt you can change everything to something you never tried before yet again and come up with a championship winning bike in only 2 years. Ducati should stick to what they have experience with. Tradition is also important and Ducati should not poop on theirs. Call me an idiot but I would not even look at a new Moto Guzzi with the cylinders pointing any other way. There are Hondas, Yamahas and Suzukis for other options. And all 3 are great brands that make great bikes. When you chose a Moto Guzzi over the other 3 you have very specific reasons to do so.

I also don't think that a tiny company can beat 2 big ones at their own game. They were on the right track with the different frame and everything.

And in my eyes, Stoner has been cleared from another charge: not developing the bike. If an experienced Italian icon can't have his way at Ducati how much do you think they listened to a young Australian kid tormented by dairy products.

- "I think we should develop a narrower V engine."
- "Listen to him...a narrower V! Hehehe! Here is a toy Kangaroo. Go play in the gravel trap. A narrower V!? Kids these days..."
I spoke to one of Rossi's mechanics at Qatar last year. He said "well it doesn't look like Stoner can develop a bike, does it?" I told him I thought that it was more a question of Ducati listening rather than Stoner providing feedback. It was perfectly clear for the two preceding years that Stoner had been telling Ducati what he thought was wrong with the bike, but Ducati had been ignoring that information, mainly because Stoner was still winning on the thing. I think Rossi & Burgess are running into exactly the same problem.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:26 PM   #1407
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I wonder if someone were able to make it happen, and Stoner traded bikes with Rossi, which would be the next man to win a race? Yeah I know its idle speculation, or just imagining, what-if's, but I still wonder.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:30 PM   #1408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florin View Post
And THEIR bike bike was exactly that! Their bike, not a Japanese copy!

That is what I am trying to say! They should build their bike, not an aluminum twin spar with an I4 or a 70 something degree V4. If you come up with your own idea, that idea will have strengths and weaknesses that are different from the strengths and weaknesses of the big companies. This way you have a chance to come out on top when everything is added up and they draw the line.

If you do the same thing, there is a good chance that your strengths and weaknesses are somewhat similar to the strengths and weaknesses of the big companies. And those companies have the money, the testing equipment and the manpower to improve the strengths and iron out the weaknesses. They will always be a small step in front of you.

Yes, Hayden was only 28 and a half seconds behind. Not 33. They should be ok with that. My bad.

I see. I was misunderstanding you. I think we are actually seeing this the same way. And yeah, 28.5 seconds is still pretty bad.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:42 PM   #1409
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I won't offer anything beyond Rossi's comment about the engine being "Like a Lion in a cage" and asking for a more usable electronic package. He is dead right.

I remember the turbo motors in F1 in the early '80's having violent power delivery when the boost kicked in. In particular I remember Nigel Mansell leaving big black streaks well past the corners and again at various shift points down the straights. His comments were very similar at the time to Rossi's. And when Honda finally tamed the power delivery and made it tractable, they became almost unbeatable.

Recent events triggers those memories and have really put all that in to perspective for me. Since I am old, fat and slow, I don't ordinarily ride sport bikes. But I recently had an opportunity to demo a 2012 ZX10R after last trying one back in 2006 or 2007. And the difference was stunning. The older version had left me with memories of it being a snarling beast that wanted to kill me at every opportunity. Effortless and unintentional wheelies in the first 4 gears even at triple digit speeds was just insanity. Brakes so powerful that one or to fingers would easily loft the rear wheel.

The 2012 model? It was was so refined and well behaved you could almost call it gentlemanly. I never once had the front wheel try to leave the ground even under full throttle acceleration. ABS brakes that were stunning and yet the back tire never once saw any daylight beneath it. The bike was still blindingly quick, and perhaps more deceptively so than the older version because it never tripped my "Oh, holy mother of god!" alarm. Afterwards the Kawi rep summed it up nicely: "We finally learned that you can't win races with your wheels in the air."
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:49 PM   #1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagofast View Post
Since I am old, fat and slow, I don't ordinarily ride sport bikes. But I recently had an opportunity to demo a 2012 ZX10R after last trying one back in 2006 or 2007. And the difference was stunning. The older version had left me with memories of it being a snarling beast that wanted to kill me at every opportunity. Effortless and unintentional wheelies in the first 4 gears even at triple digit speeds was just insanity. Brakes so powerful that one or to fingers would easily loft the rear wheel.

The 2012 model? It was was so refined and well behaved you could almost call it gentlemanly. I never once had the front wheel try to leave the ground even under full throttle acceleration. ABS brakes that were stunning and yet the back tire never once saw any daylight beneath it. The bike was still blindingly quick, and perhaps more deceptively so than the older version because it never tripped my "Oh, holy mother of god!" alarm. "
How much more do you weigh now?

j/k; please don't kill me!
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