The 2012 CRF250L thread - Page 14

IheartmyNx · 03-12-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivercreep

Unless you're talking about Dualsports that you load up with gear and need reliability more than ultimate performance. (isn't that what we're talking about here?)

So torque would be a good thing then, no? Here comes a shocker, so brace yourself... You can't get it alone just by dropping the compression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xy500

It's a fact that efi can give you a broader, more predictable power band. carb and efi are equal when it comes to max power.

the bore vs stroke of an engine is a determining factor in max rpm, torque and volumetric efficiency.
This honda sounds like its going to be poo.

I agree. Don't know why these guys are saying EFI doesn't make power because it's not "tuned". Well hell, you can tune a XR250 to blow a CRF250 out of the water by "tuning" it... It just won't last long that's all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

For everyone who's wondering about the power and reliability of the engine in the Honda CRF250L you only have to look at the new Honda CBR250 as it's the same engine in both bikes.

Yeah, it's the same. We got that. It's compression is lower too, no?

IheartmyNx · 03-12-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tHEtREV

Dude...

Seriously...

Bore X stroke measurements only tell a very small part of the picture.

Alone they tell you absolutely nothing about how a bike makes its power.

The NX didn't sell very well so Honda dropped it, get over it.

It was a very ordinary bike to begin with and only designed as a commuter anyway.

EFI is cleaner than carbs, not more powerful.

There...

Someone had to say it.

No, bore and stroke (compression and cam) tell you everything. Compare KTM 2t 200-250-300 to any 4t 250-450.

And while yer at it, compare any gas to a Diesels...

But don't stop at a number. That's a waste of time. LOOK at the RPM's they generate the peek power in.

33hp at 13,000,000 RPM's (yz250f) is a far cry from a practical 33hp @ 5,500rpm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivercreep

You beat me to it!
I wonder where the misconception comes from that EFI instantly gives you more power?

Again, a Toyota 22R and 22RE. Same EXACT bore, stroke, compression ratio, same heads, combustion chamber and cam. EVERYTHING is the same ex the EFI.

But it's not tuned... So let's compare the 22RE to a Kieth Black Hemmi? 25:1 compression and 25GPM fuel pumps! 1,500hp... And lasts about two passes.

So don't give me that tuned crap! You can tune till the cows come home it's not a fair comparison the compare the probable numbers of a tuned engine to a stock one.

They either both get tuned, or they both get compared stock.

The XR250 had 17hp STOCK, and as a consequence it was reliable!

Tune a XR250 to 25hp or more and we'll see how long it lasts... A year? Maybe two?

Hardly sounds fair to me.

NJ-Brett · 03-12-2012, 12:13 PM

Tuning in my book is adjusting the mixture on a FI bike.
You need to buy a power commander to 'tune' it so its not super lean.
There is no wide band system on any motorcycle I ever heard of, and some systems are really very poor.

And the car motor carb to FI comparison is not really valid, in order to meet emissions standards, they had to do all sorts of tricks to a carb setup to get it to pass, and it would never be able to pass now.

IheartmyNx · 03-12-2012, 12:40 PM

you can also tune a carb engine to run extra rich... And gas wash the cylinder walls...

IheartmyNx · 03-12-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

And the car motor carb to FI comparison is not really valid, in order to meet emissions standards, they had to do all sorts of tricks to a carb setup to get it to pass, and it would never be able to pass now.

89 was pretty much the last year of the 22R... And since 95 the R is no longer available in the US anyway.

And I've heard it said the reason why Husky dropped the 610/630 is because the can't make that engine pass emissions...

Apples/apples..

valvecrusher · 03-12-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IheartmyNx

So don't give me that tuned crap! You can tune till the cows come home it's not a fair comparison the compare the probable numbers of a tuned engine to a stock one.

They either both get tuned, or they both get compared stock.

The XR250 had 17hp STOCK, and as a consequence it was reliable!

Tune a XR250 to 25hp or more and we'll see how long it lasts... A year? Maybe two?

Hardly sounds fair to me.

My XL250R 1987 (XR engine based) was 26 hp stock, same as the NX250. However, with a much lower redline, it was A LOT faster, as well.(less weight also) It had more torque, and lower rpms.

How long did it last? 20,500 miles (4.5 years) and still happily starting first kick when i sold it to the new owner...

How did it do that? Good mpgs(120+ mpgs), fast 0-60 time, and great durability?

Twin Carbs.
And it was perfectly tuned with the correct jets, select spark plug, and some minor exhaust tweaks..

It did it with alot less RPMs, and would smoke Harleys from a dead stop..

I have no doubt i could have pulled another 20,000 miles before i put a piston ring in, maybe slightly less miles if it began to smoke or burn oil.
But it did neither when i sold it.

ymmv

The 2carb XR250r was rated 29, 30 or 31 hp depending on which factory reference manual you had to go by..
But they have reputations for blowing up

The single carb XR250r was a bit less...but had different bore and stroke, as well as induction style

rickypanecatyl · 03-13-2012, 11:33 AM

So what weighs more...a lb of ignious volcanic rocks or a lb of lays potato chips?

TonyBKK · 03-14-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl

So what weighs more...a lb of ignious volcanic rocks or a lb of lays potato chips?

Are they intrusive or extrusive igneous volcanic rocks?

And more importantly, what kind of DIP are you serving with those chips???

RebelYell · 03-15-2012, 06:15 PM

I couldnt find this crf 250l on hondas site where did you see that they might be making one?

Llamaha · 03-15-2012, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelYell

I couldnt find this crf 250l on hondas site where did you see that they might be making one?

They've already made it, will be released in Australia shortly but I'm not sure about the other countries

rockinrog · 03-15-2012, 06:42 PM

They are making it. It's just a question of IF it will be sold in the USA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQNKbs3V9sE

HellCat650 · 03-18-2012, 06:00 AM

I would imagine that this will kill sales of the existing 230L's...probably why it's not showing up on the sites yet.
Sell off their inventory first....

This might be a great bike for the Mrs...
(and of course I would have to test it out for her)

Reconstructed · 03-18-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellCat650

I would imagine that this will kill sales of the existing 230L's...probably why it's not showing up on the sites yet.
Sell off their inventory first....

This might be a great bike for the Mrs...
(and of course I would have to test it out for her)

Sell off the inventory.

If that's the case, we 'mercuns wont see this bike for several years

byron555 · 03-26-2012, 11:36 AM

Now that I own a wr250r, I can say that the damn thing is great! Went from a xr650l to it, it's a better bike when you consider that it is only 250cc... way better! If Honda can make it as "friendly" as the 230L but almost as fun as the wr250r... Well... Home-run my friends, grand-slam home-run.

black comet · 03-29-2012, 01:39 AM

I was wondering about something.

Over hear in Singapore. We use bikes not just for leisure but also as a basic form of transport.

There's a few funny questions hope you guys can help me out over here.

CRF250L

Got AIS equivilent. Off set crank, New unique rocker arm design to minimise noise, EFI. comp at 10.7
Engine is base on a road bike. Seems like the fork and rear shox offers bare minimium adjustments.
Cheaper steel frame.

WR250

AIS, EXUP, Standard cams with standard bucket over shims designs. EFI. comp at 11.8
Engine is designed solely for off road and matard. Full adjustments for fork and rear shox.
Aluminium alloy frame.

I wonders, Base on the above mentioned, which bike in ur opinion is easier and cheaper to maintain?
I seem to have this old school ideology that, the more parts a machine have, the higher chance that componet will fail.

There is a few parts on both bikes that I particular concern with.

The valve train design. The frame material, engine origins and the EXUP.

Honda's fork shape rocker arms for the valve actuation claims that it's quieter and have a longer service interval.
Also, rumours have that it's easier to change shims as it is not required to remove the cam in order to access the shims.

Frame material. I have use bikes with steel frame so far. No complain on that. But Aluminium alloy frame? I have have no experiencce on that. But all tech datas on metals seems to point that All aluminium alloy have lower fatique limits and fatique life than steel.

Engines. One is straight from a street/race bike. The yamaha one is suposed to be develope purely for it usage. Can't help but to feel that The Honda CBR250r bases engine is more meant for street use only than for motard and offroad. (U know? things like those on off riding and etc. Plus it does not have a easy access clutch cover. to replace clutch, u need to romove the whole crank case side cover.)

EXUP. Amazing piece of technology. Reminds me of a fighter aircraft's variable air intake and the afterburner exhaust nozzle. I still remember my childhood days. When Yamaha came out with the YPVS for their 2 stroke. To me back then, It was DAH THING to have on a bike (I was a kid back then:P). All seems nice on paper and from technology perspective. But is it really that good? And do it fail often?

My usage over here in Singapore is pretty diff from America and Europe. Over here, we use it a a primary mode of transport for some (kinda like how the Europeans and Americans drive a car to work and etc) On week ends, will join biker friends for rounding or maybe some light trails.

Rding pattern is abit extreme here. One moment we are stuck in traffic jams and maybe the max speed is 40km/h. Then next moment we are on freeway going at 100km/h.

Maintenace ability in this small country here is limited. Not much shop can do a full maintenace as according to the manual. Some shops here are still doing valve clearance by gut feeling (yes no feeler guage). Oil, filter and coolant change is not a issue, but they like to over tighten everything. We either spend much much more by going to the Main Distributor here (still they do blotch jobs once a blue moon. The Main distributor)
Or we can DIY.

Please share you opinions, in this aspect. Which bike is more attractive to get? Not in performance context, but rather on Quiet nice and easy control smooth ride and Ease of Maintenance.

Thanks in advance:)

03-12-2012, 12:40 PM	#199
IheartmyNx Ihave2draft Joined: Apr 2009 Location: This side of free life, Nashville, Volunteer State Oddometer: 3,669	you can also tune a carb engine to run extra rich... And gas wash the cylinder walls... __________________ Because you can't stave US out, and you can't make US run, cuz we're them ol' boys raised on shotgun! We say Grace, and we say Ma'm and if you aint into that we don't give a damn! Make our own whiskey and our own economy too, aint too many things these ol' boys CAN'T DO!

03-15-2012, 06:42 PM	#206
rockinrog Beastly Adventurer Joined: Mar 2008 Location: Central PA Oddometer: 2,490	They are making it. It's just a question of IF it will be sold in the USA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQNKbs3V9sE __________________ BRP 2010 and 2012 PA to Montana Rural Ramblings

03-18-2012, 06:00 AM	#207
HellCat650 Adventurer Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Quispamsis, NB, CANADA Oddometer: 79	I would imagine that this will kill sales of the existing 230L's...probably why it's not showing up on the sites yet. Sell off their inventory first.... This might be a great bike for the Mrs... (and of course I would have to test it out for her) __________________ 2011 KLR 650 TLH Adventure Aug 2012 HellCat650 screwed with this post 03-18-2012 at 06:03 AM Reason: Addition

03-26-2012, 11:36 AM	#209
byron555 Lame Duck Adventurer Joined: Oct 2007 Location: Central Wisconsin Oddometer: 816	Blah, Blah, Blah EFI, ETC, ETC Now that I own a wr250r, I can say that the damn thing is great! Went from a xr650l to it, it's a better bike when you consider that it is only 250cc... way better! If Honda can make it as "friendly" as the 230L but almost as fun as the wr250r... Well... Home-run my friends, grand-slam home-run. __________________ Another inmate stole my Avatar... WR250R... 15 cubic inches of raw power. xr50r.... More than I can Handle Oil changed @ 11900 miles + filter (so I don't forget)

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03-12-2012, 12:13 PM	#198
NJ-Brett Brett Joined: Sep 2010 Location: Southern New Jersey Oddometer: 4,722	Tuning in my book is adjusting the mixture on a FI bike. You need to buy a power commander to 'tune' it so its not super lean. There is no wide band system on any motorcycle I ever heard of, and some systems are really very poor. And the car motor carb to FI comparison is not really valid, in order to meet emissions standards, they had to do all sorts of tricks to a carb setup to get it to pass, and it would never be able to pass now.

03-13-2012, 11:33 AM	#202
rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Oddometer: 598	So what weighs more...a lb of ignious volcanic rocks or a lb of lays potato chips?

03-15-2012, 06:15 PM	#204
RebelYell Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2012 Location: somerset nj Oddometer: 335	I couldnt find this crf 250l on hondas site where did you see that they might be making one?

03-29-2012, 01:39 AM	#210
black comet Chink rider Joined: Sep 2010 Location: Singapore Oddometer: 5	I was wondering about something. Over hear in Singapore. We use bikes not just for leisure but also as a basic form of transport. There's a few funny questions hope you guys can help me out over here. CRF250L Got AIS equivilent. Off set crank, New unique rocker arm design to minimise noise, EFI. comp at 10.7 Engine is base on a road bike. Seems like the fork and rear shox offers bare minimium adjustments. Cheaper steel frame. WR250 AIS, EXUP, Standard cams with standard bucket over shims designs. EFI. comp at 11.8 Engine is designed solely for off road and matard. Full adjustments for fork and rear shox. Aluminium alloy frame. I wonders, Base on the above mentioned, which bike in ur opinion is easier and cheaper to maintain? I seem to have this old school ideology that, the more parts a machine have, the higher chance that componet will fail. There is a few parts on both bikes that I particular concern with. The valve train design. The frame material, engine origins and the EXUP. Honda's fork shape rocker arms for the valve actuation claims that it's quieter and have a longer service interval. Also, rumours have that it's easier to change shims as it is not required to remove the cam in order to access the shims. Frame material. I have use bikes with steel frame so far. No complain on that. But Aluminium alloy frame? I have have no experiencce on that. But all tech datas on metals seems to point that All aluminium alloy have lower fatique limits and fatique life than steel. Engines. One is straight from a street/race bike. The yamaha one is suposed to be develope purely for it usage. Can't help but to feel that The Honda CBR250r bases engine is more meant for street use only than for motard and offroad. (U know? things like those on off riding and etc. Plus it does not have a easy access clutch cover. to replace clutch, u need to romove the whole crank case side cover.) EXUP. Amazing piece of technology. Reminds me of a fighter aircraft's variable air intake and the afterburner exhaust nozzle. I still remember my childhood days. When Yamaha came out with the YPVS for their 2 stroke. To me back then, It was DAH THING to have on a bike (I was a kid back then:P). All seems nice on paper and from technology perspective. But is it really that good? And do it fail often? My usage over here in Singapore is pretty diff from America and Europe. Over here, we use it a a primary mode of transport for some (kinda like how the Europeans and Americans drive a car to work and etc) On week ends, will join biker friends for rounding or maybe some light trails. Rding pattern is abit extreme here. One moment we are stuck in traffic jams and maybe the max speed is 40km/h. Then next moment we are on freeway going at 100km/h. Maintenace ability in this small country here is limited. Not much shop can do a full maintenace as according to the manual. Some shops here are still doing valve clearance by gut feeling (yes no feeler guage). Oil, filter and coolant change is not a issue, but they like to over tighten everything. We either spend much much more by going to the Main Distributor here (still they do blotch jobs once a blue moon. The Main distributor) Or we can DIY. Please share you opinions, in this aspect. Which bike is more attractive to get? Not in performance context, but rather on Quiet nice and easy control smooth ride and Ease of Maintenance. Thanks in advance:)