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Old 02-01-2013, 05:27 PM   #4951
GreatWhiteNorth
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Ring design

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelcorn View Post
I think most people will agree that at high speeds a lot of thumpers will burn some oil.

The issue is that many of the 2008's burn an excessive amount of oil, like a quart in 500 miles. Very few years before do that, and most of the post 2008's don't do that.

I guess my question to you would be why do YOU think the 2008's were so much worse than the years before and after?
I've read the '08 model year had a slightly changed ring design... don't remember the details (maybe someone could chime in with that), but seem to recall the ring type, thickness, hardness all were a factor. Am personally looking forward to 685 kit upgrade with the Thermo-Bob installed - slightly more power, less vibration and decreased oil consumption - all good. Haven't heard too many guys with aftermarket piston kits complaining about excessive oil consumption. I still maintain operating at higher rpms for extended periods places greater stress on pistons and rings - in my mind, it only stands to reason that the rings flex more and generally have a tougher time sealing. I've read this in car & bike mags, and heard this stated here too - it's on the internet - must be true!
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:06 PM   #4952
Tsotsie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorth View Post


I've read the '08 model year had a slightly changed ring design... don't remember the details (maybe someone could chime in with that), but seem to recall the ring type, thickness, hardness all were a factor. Am personally looking forward to 685 kit upgrade with the Thermo-Bob installed - slightly more power, less vibration and decreased oil consumption - all good. Haven't heard too many guys with aftermarket piston kits complaining about excessive oil consumption. I still maintain operating at higher rpms for extended periods places greater stress on pistons and rings - in my mind, it only stands to reason that the rings flex more and generally have a tougher time sealing. I've read this in car & bike mags, and heard this stated here too - it's on the internet - must be true!
The pre- 08 pistons are known to occasionally break a ring land - the section of piston material between the rings. The piston design was changed for 08 to try to address that. The new and thinner 08 ring design pressue was about 3lbs - not enough. This could cause ring flutter and oil usage at rpm's around 5K. Some 08's had the bores oval too. The late Cary Aspy, of Schnitz, in co-operation with JT pistons, decided on a forged piston (stock is cast) that gave a 685cc displacement and that has a ring pressure of 11 lbs.

I now have 36K on my 08 and the JT 685 piston (47k on the bike). It does not use oil ( about 1/8" on the sight glass) even after a 4k ( no oil changes), 8 day ride with several 7-800 mile days and many, many, miles and hours upon hours of running at or above 5k rpm. I have now done many rides like that.

There are a lot of 'old wives tales', 'tribal knowledge', call it what you like, that are ignorantly spread around on forums about 'all singles use a bit of oil'. Decent piston and ring design, propely bored and toleranced piston and rings will not 'use' oil.

Tsotsie screwed with this post 02-01-2013 at 06:14 PM
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:20 PM   #4953
GreatWhiteNorth
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There you go.

Thnx for that. All engines use some oil tho... the thing is what is considered acceptable? ...and I'd imagine there are in reality many factors that could contribute to increased oil consumption; worn rings from abrasive dust getting past the filter for example...
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:16 PM   #4954
elel
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Question KLR question

Hey guys,

I've got some questions about repair work I need to do on my '08 KLR650. I bought the bike last year with about 4000 miles on it, and have put another 6000 on myself. The previous owner said it was broken in properly and maintained, though he didn't believe in lubing the chain. It's been running fine for me with a few exceptions which I'll get to, and the one big problem.

The big problem is as follows. I drive the bike into work/school when I'm able, and given the price of gas, I drive pretty late into the year. One cold morning (about 18F I think) I was driving into work on the highway, doing 55. I noticed several puffs of haze form behind me, but since it was kind of foggy in places I thought it was just my exhaust condensing. I rode another 4 - 5 miles and then pulled off on an ATV trail to warm my hands up. I noticed some smoke coming from the engine, so I shut it down and took a closer look. The oil level had entirely disappeared from the sight glass, and the left side of the engine and my left leg were covered in oil. The smoke was coming from where some oil had got on the exhaust pipe. I only had a mile and a half to go to get to a gas station, so I drove slowly there and put some oil in. Since then I've driven another two or three miles, and see no sign of any leaking, but I don't have any idea where the oil came out of the engine. As I said before, the left side of the engine was coated, the right side had nothing. There are no visible holes in any seals, though I can't see the top end very well under the tank.

On to the smaller issues I've had. When on a weekend trip last summer, my oil filler cap came off on the highway. I felt my peg getting slippery, so I stopped very quickly. I had extra oil along that time, but I couldn't find the cap, so I rode the rest of the weekend with a piece of foam and then a sink stopper stuck in the hole. I changed the oil right away when I got back, but I think there are still a couple of bits of the foam loose in there. The other smaller issue I had was that once the weather started getting cold, my oil sight window and filler cap became coated in white moisture residue. I put the watt-man radiator mod on, and that seemed to be helping, but then I shut everything down after losing all that oil.

So my questions:
1. Any idea where the oil is coming from, and how it could spray so much oil and then not leak a drop?
2. I'll (obviously) be tearing the engine apart until I find what's the matter. Anything I should do while I've got it out of the bike and am working on it? I'd prefer not to put a bored cylinder on it; I just don't have the money for that now. But what is prudent to keep a 2008 running on long trips?

Thanks all!
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:54 PM   #4955
scrappydoo
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Titling KLR in WI

I'm trying to title my 2008 KLR 650 in Wisconsin and the ole' DMV is giving me a hassle saying that the VIN is coming up as a "dirt bike." As we all know this is not the case. The previous title, which was from Illinois has it listed as a "motorcycle." The DMV is telling me that I need to locate a Federal Safety plate which will tell me that it's street legal. Anyone have any suggestions for me? Anyone have this happen to them in Wisconsin? How did you handle it? I should add I didn't go to the DMV window I just sent in the title hoping they would send me my new WI title.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:14 AM   #4956
XDragRacer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrappydoo View Post
Anyone have any suggestions for me?
I see no peril in appearing in person before a DMV office for you; you may find knowledgeable help, and--regardless, your bike will still be a KLR before and after your visit--nothing to lose.

Further suggestion; wouldn't hurt for you to enlist a Kawasaki dealership in your case. The dealership personnel may have relevant knowledge and experience to share in your case, and--it's in the dealership's best interests to empower a local Kawasaki rider for subsequent business.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:23 AM   #4957
Tsotsie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elel View Post
Hey guys,

I've got some questions about repair work I need to do on my '08 KLR650. I bought the bike last year with about 4000 miles on it, and have put another 6000 on myself. The previous owner said it was broken in properly and maintained, though he didn't believe in lubing the chain. It's been running fine for me with a few exceptions which I'll get to, and the one big problem.

The big problem is as follows. I drive the bike into work/school when I'm able, and given the price of gas, I drive pretty late into the year. One cold morning (about 18F I think) I was driving into work on the highway, doing 55. I noticed several puffs of haze form behind me, but since it was kind of foggy in places I thought it was just my exhaust condensing. I rode another 4 - 5 miles and then pulled off on an ATV trail to warm my hands up. I noticed some smoke coming from the engine, so I shut it down and took a closer look. The oil level had entirely disappeared from the sight glass, and the left side of the engine and my left leg were covered in oil. The smoke was coming from where some oil had got on the exhaust pipe. I only had a mile and a half to go to get to a gas station, so I drove slowly there and put some oil in. Since then I've driven another two or three miles, and see no sign of any leaking, but I don't have any idea where the oil came out of the engine. As I said before, the left side of the engine was coated, the right side had nothing. There are no visible holes in any seals, though I can't see the top end very well under the tank.

On to the smaller issues I've had. When on a weekend trip last summer, my oil filler cap came off on the highway. I felt my peg getting slippery, so I stopped very quickly. I had extra oil along that time, but I couldn't find the cap, so I rode the rest of the weekend with a piece of foam and then a sink stopper stuck in the hole. I changed the oil right away when I got back, but I think there are still a couple of bits of the foam loose in there. The other smaller issue I had was that once the weather started getting cold, my oil sight window and filler cap became coated in white moisture residue. I put the watt-man radiator mod on, and that seemed to be helping, but then I shut everything down after losing all that oil.

So my questions:
1. Any idea where the oil is coming from, and how it could spray so much oil and then not leak a drop?
2. I'll (obviously) be tearing the engine apart until I find what's the matter. Anything I should do while I've got it out of the bike and am working on it? I'd prefer not to put a bored cylinder on it; I just don't have the money for that now. But what is prudent to keep a 2008 running on long trips?

Thanks all!
1. Finding the oil leak. Clean the bike well- with a water soluble degreaser - spray on, wash off. Ride the bike (on a dirt road) and see where the dirt collects. Several areas. There is an oil delivery pipe that sends oil from the left side to the transmission, the counter sprocket bearings and up to the head and cams. These attachment points and their copper washers may be loose. This oil leaking will be on the top back of the motor. If the chain was too tight, then it may have destroyed the counter shaft oil seal - oil will be coming out of that shaft area. Both are relatively easy to fix and no need tear the motor apart. Find the leak area 1st.

2. Foam in the motor. I would 1st look at the oil filter area to see what was in there. Then definitly, and as soon as possible, remove the clutch side cover and check the oil screen at the bottom. If this gets blocked, then it would starve the oil pump and if that happens, it will 1st toast your cam bearings.

3. White moisture residue in the sight glass. Not a big issue. A by-product of combustion is acidic water which does not get expelled from the exhaust, but leaks into the crankcase and is usually heated off/evaporated when the motor (oil and crankcase in particular, gets up to operating temp. This evaporation does not occur if all you are doing is short trips in cold weather. Those of us who have the thermobob have less of a problem as the motor warms up quickly and stays at a higher temp (195) than the 160 degree stock stat.

4. Leaking oil and using oil are two different animals. Fix the leaks and then see what your oil usage is before sweating over piston replacement.

5. What is prudent for keeping an 08 running on long trips?. Oil and gas is the short answer. Proper maintenace, including lubing and adjusting the chain helps. The long answer - another day. However, the best and most important answer to keeping any motorcycle running long and reliably is what is between your ears! Information (and knowing where to get it), knowledge and a KLR, as simple as it is, will help you there.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:00 AM   #4958
Kawidad
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Location: Central Coast, Cal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
1. Finding the oil leak. Clean the bike well- with a water soluble degreaser - spray on, wash off. Ride the bike (on a dirt road) and see where the dirt collects. Several areas. There is an oil delivery pipe that sends oil from the left side to the transmission, the counter sprocket bearings and up to the head and cams. These attachment points and their copper washers may be loose. This oil leaking will be on the top back of the motor. If the chain was too tight, then it may have destroyed the counter shaft oil seal - oil will be coming out of that shaft area. Both are relatively easy to fix and no need tear the motor apart. Find the leak area 1st.

2. Foam in the motor. I would 1st look at the oil filter area to see what was in there. Then definitly, and as soon as possible, remove the clutch side cover and check the oil screen at the bottom. If this gets blocked, then it would starve the oil pump and if that happens, it will 1st toast your cam bearings.

3. White moisture residue in the sight glass. Not a big issue. A by-product of combustion is acidic water which does not get expelled from the exhaust, but leaks into the crankcase and is usually heated off/evaporated when the motor (oil and crankcase in particular, gets up to operating temp. This evaporation does not occur if all you are doing is short trips in cold weather. Those of us who have the thermobob have less of a problem as the motor warms up quickly and stays at a higher temp (195) than the 160 degree stock stat.

4. Leaking oil and using oil are two different animals. Fix the leaks and then see what your oil usage is before sweating over piston replacement.

5. What is prudent for keeping an 08 running on long trips?. Oil and gas is the short answer. Proper maintenace, including lubing and adjusting the chain helps. The long answer - another day. However, the best and most important answer to keeping any motorcycle running long and reliably is what is between your ears! Information (and knowing where to get it), knowledge and a KLR, as simple as it is, will help you there.
Well played sir!

To the OP: What he said.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:02 AM   #4959
Kawidad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc11 View Post
To accept anything else is just making excuses for a poor design IMHO.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

The design is okay, it's the quality control in the building process.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:33 AM   #4960
k9bite
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Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Oddometer: 18
Opinions on this CL KLR

Hi guys, I've been wanting a KLR for years and now is finally the time to get one. I've looked at a couple on Craigslist and really like this one, but there are a couple things I'm a little concerned about. Here's a link to the post but I copied the text from the post so if you don't care to see the pics:

This red 2008 KLR650 has good TKC80 tires (rear is brand new), battery, etc. 99XX miles. Runs well and looks good. Clear AZ title. This is the first year of the latest redesign and it is much smoother with a much more comfortable seat than the earlier model.
Extras include:
High strength sub-frame bolt
Progressive suspension front and rear
Fork brace
Stompgrip tank knee grips
Stage one carb / jet kit
14T countershaft sprocket
Happy Trails skid plate, radiator guard, side guards, and bag racks
Optional higher Kawasaki windshield
Hyperlight blinking brake lights
Modulated headlight
Turn signal beeper
12v cigarette lighter type outlet
Stebel air horn
I will also include a pair of clapped out Fastrax bags and a Cee Bailey headlight guard that have survived a trip to the Arctic Ocean.

And the link: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/3554394187.html


Here are my concerns.

First, he's the original owner and he had oil burning issues when he first purchased it. The dealer addressed the issue by replacing pistons and rings, which he says resolved the oil burning problem. I've read a little about the 2008 oil burning issue and I was under the impression this procedure didn't fix the problem. The guy is a real motorcycle hobbyist and does a lot of work himself (he's got two older bikes he takes up to Bonneville to compete each year and does the mods himself) so I would think he would have just done the top end rebuild himself if this didn't fix the oil burning issue.

Second, he claims the odometer got stuck at 2,500 miles, so the 9,9XX miles listed in the add is an estimate. I plan to take it to a nearby shop to have it checked out so I should be able to make sure it really isn't 102,500 miles. My concern with this issue is resale value. I'm wondering if I'll have issues selling it myself later.

I'm a pretty good judge of character because of my line of work, my BS meter is pretty accurate and I tend to believe the seller, but you never know for sure.

Lastly, the price is pretty firm, think it is a good price?

Thanks for the advice,

Todd
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:03 AM   #4961
Aprilia
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bite View Post


Here are my concerns.

First, he's the original owner and he had oil burning issues when he first purchased it. The dealer addressed the issue by replacing pistons and rings, which he says resolved the oil burning problem. I've read a little about the 2008 oil burning issue and I was under the impression this procedure didn't fix the problem. The guy is a real motorcycle hobbyist and does a lot of work himself (he's got two older bikes he takes up to Bonneville to compete each year and does the mods himself) so I would think he would have just done the top end rebuild himself if this didn't fix the oil burning issue.

Second, he claims the odometer got stuck at 2,500 miles, so the 9,9XX miles listed in the add is an estimate. I plan to take it to a nearby shop to have it checked out so I should be able to make sure it really isn't 102,500 miles. My concern with this issue is resale value. I'm wondering if I'll have issues selling it myself later.

I'm a pretty good judge of character because of my line of work, my BS meter is pretty accurate and I tend to believe the seller, but you never know for sure.

Lastly, the price is pretty firm, think it is a good price?

Thanks for the advice,

Todd
I've seen a number of OEM fixes that did work...and others that didn't. Worse case you can upgrade with an EagleMike big bore kit and be done with it. Relatively inexpensive...

2500 mileage discrepancy is not even a blip on my radar. Fact he told you lends credit to him...

If that is a DynoJet kit installed its running way too rich. Expect mileage in the low 40's...maybe even upper 30's. We can give jetting changes that will work great with that kit.

Its a fair price. I have a buddy about to sell his 08. He has 20K and his was an oil burner to the point the original owner let it run low and toasted the topend. He simply swapped out the engine. He's added some nice suspension upgrades as well as addressed the normal KLR stuff. He'll be asking about the same price.

When/If you purchase...check for deep hole syndrome (all 2008's had it), visually verify Doo lever/spring or best to just upgrade both, pull the rear suspension apart and lube the bearings. The Prolink pivot bolt is first to get seized. Understand how the side stand and clutch safety switch works, maintained and how to disable either/both in the field if needed. The early GenII's have 6 common rub thru points on the wire harness. There are several more that are coming to light. Simply strip the bike down and go thru the entire harness. You'll get years of trouble free service...
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:39 PM   #4962
DesertDuster
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Kingman, AZ
Oddometer: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bite View Post
Hi guys, I've been wanting a KLR for years and now is finally the time to get one. I've looked at a couple on Craigslist and really like this one, but there are a couple things I'm a little concerned about. Here's a link to the post but I copied the text from the post so if you don't care to see the pics:

This red 2008 KLR650 has good TKC80 tires (rear is brand new), battery, etc. 99XX miles. Runs well and looks good. Clear AZ title. This is the first year of the latest redesign and it is much smoother with a much more comfortable seat than the earlier model.
Extras include:
High strength sub-frame bolt
Progressive suspension front and rear
Fork brace
Stompgrip tank knee grips
Stage one carb / jet kit
14T countershaft sprocket
Happy Trails skid plate, radiator guard, side guards, and bag racks
Optional higher Kawasaki windshield
Hyperlight blinking brake lights
Modulated headlight
Turn signal beeper
12v cigarette lighter type outlet
Stebel air horn
I will also include a pair of clapped out Fastrax bags and a Cee Bailey headlight guard that have survived a trip to the Arctic Ocean.

And the link: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/3554394187.html


Here are my concerns.

First, he's the original owner and he had oil burning issues when he first purchased it. The dealer addressed the issue by replacing pistons and rings, which he says resolved the oil burning problem. I've read a little about the 2008 oil burning issue and I was under the impression this procedure didn't fix the problem. The guy is a real motorcycle hobbyist and does a lot of work himself (he's got two older bikes he takes up to Bonneville to compete each year and does the mods himself) so I would think he would have just done the top end rebuild himself if this didn't fix the oil burning issue.

Second, he claims the odometer got stuck at 2,500 miles, so the 9,9XX miles listed in the add is an estimate. I plan to take it to a nearby shop to have it checked out so I should be able to make sure it really isn't 102,500 miles. My concern with this issue is resale value. I'm wondering if I'll have issues selling it myself later.

I'm a pretty good judge of character because of my line of work, my BS meter is pretty accurate and I tend to believe the seller, but you never know for sure.

Lastly, the price is pretty firm, think it is a good price?

Thanks for the advice,

Todd
It looks like a pretty good deal with all the extras. Mileage on the bike is still low. He has had it since 08 so it was well cared for. BS meter is low so two thumbs up.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:55 PM   #4963
brailman133
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ready for the read.. could not fined this. the search feature is well for me not so good.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:30 PM   #4964
stuser
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Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Canberra, Australia
Oddometer: 379
US prices

I still can't believe how cheap these bikes are in the USA.....

$3500 wow.

$2000 less than here in Australia.

I guess there has to be some benefit of living there
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #4965
itsatdm
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Location: Nor Ca.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDuster View Post
It looks like a pretty good deal with all the extras. Mileage on the bike is still low. He has had it since 08 so it was well cared for. BS meter is low so two thumbs up.
I agree. It has a lot of well thought out additions.

The fix for the oil burning is new rings plus a re hone of the cylinder. The dealer put in piston and rings. Why be suspicious if the owner did not do it himself. The bike was probably under warranty.


The jet kit is a non issue. Don't like it, take it out. Stock needles are $20

That bike does not have 102,000 miles on it. Is the speedo fixed?
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