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Old 07-16-2013, 05:34 PM   #7561
dumbazz650
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The spring provides tension to take up the slack in the chain driven balancer system. Although it is possible to have too much tension (from too short of a tensioner spring), the most frequently occurring issue is too little tension and thus the chain is too loose and slaps back and forth on every power stroke (4-stoke motor) and especially on hard acceleration and hard deceleration. Chain stretch is a normally occurring wear as the chain goes through the engine operation and normal life cycle. It's more likely to be exacerbated by too much slack vs too much tension from a too short spring. For a too short spring, the actual wear item is the bearings on the idler sprocket, and the bearing surface on the idler shaft (from personal experience).

Personally, I would not own a KLR that had not had the doo and the spring replaced. However, I have only owned about 12 KLR650s, so I am likely to be very biased. The count of failed doo and levers from the tech days I have attended is about 200 by my count (over about 10 tech days in SoCal, NoCal, NV and AZ). Again, a relatively small statistical sampling that biases my personal approach.

But each rider must decide for themselves. "Hey, what's the worst that could happen? The doo fails and blows out your bottom end? Probably a 1 in 100 chance. You decide for yourself.

I don't claim to be the expert on this topic, but I do have some experience ...

dumbazz650 screwed with this post 07-16-2013 at 05:40 PM
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:35 PM   #7562
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Originally Posted by dumbazz650 View Post
No doubt about it, I gotta get me some better friends.
Funny part is, I barely know the guy. I was invited to a couple parties at his house by mutual friends. We got to talking bikes. I invited him to join me on my next Dragon trip. He gave me a motorcycle. I guess us bike people are just a different kinda folk.

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Old 07-16-2013, 06:41 PM   #7563
UtahGuido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbazz650 View Post
The spring provides tension to take up the slack in the chain driven balancer system. Although it is possible to have too much tension (from too short of a tensioner spring), the most frequently occurring issue is too little tension and thus the chain is too loose and slaps back and forth on every power stroke (4-stoke motor) and especially on hard acceleration and hard deceleration. Chain stretch is a normally occurring wear as the chain goes through the engine operation and normal life cycle. It's more likely to be exacerbated by too much slack vs too much tension from a too short spring. For a too short spring, the actual wear item is the bearings on the idler sprocket, and the bearing surface on the idler shaft (from personal experience).

Personally, I would not own a KLR that had not had the doo and the spring replaced. However, I have only owned about 12 KLR650s, so I am likely to be very biased. The count of failed doo and levers from the tech days I have attended is about 200 by my count (over about 10 tech days in SoCal, NoCal, NV and AZ). Again, a relatively small statistical sampling that biases my personal approach.

But each rider must decide for themselves. "Hey, what's the worst that could happen? The doo fails and blows out your bottom end? Probably a 1 in 100 chance. You decide for yourself.

I don't claim to be the expert on this topic, but I do have some experience ...
Well I have only had one KLR and I have blown out the bottom end, and that was because when I did my doo I allowed the spacer to get loose in the bottom end. That may not have been the exact cause, it's a long, long story, but it certainly didn't help. What eventually happened is the balancer chain broke at 5000 RPM. Anyway I've had a chance to examine all the various doohickeys (well, a 2007, a 2008, and Eagle Mike's). Eagle Mikes is a machined unit and very sturdy. The 2008 is a forged unit and just as sturdy looking as Eagle Mike's. The 2007 is (I 'm pretty sure) a stamped(?) unit and sort of wimpy. Those deserve replacement. The 2008? Why replace it? It's a solid little chunk of steel. The spring? I guess its a matter of, "not to loose, not too tight - just right". Order Eagle Mike's springs, put one in, and be happy.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:08 PM   #7564
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Originally Posted by UtahGuido View Post
Well I have only had one KLR and I have blown out the bottom end, and that was because when I did my doo I allowed the spacer to get loose in the bottom end. That may not have been the exact cause, it's a long, long story, but it certainly didn't help. What eventually happened is the balancer chain broke at 5000 RPM. Anyway I've had a chance to examine all the various doohickeys (well, a 2007, a 2008, and Eagle Mike's). Eagle Mikes is a machined unit and very sturdy. The 2008 is a forged unit and just as sturdy looking as Eagle Mike's. The 2007 is (I 'm pretty sure) a stamped(?) unit and sort of wimpy. Those deserve replacement. The 2008? Why replace it? It's a solid little chunk of steel. The spring? I guess its a matter of, "not to loose, not too tight - just right". Order Eagle Mike's springs, put one in, and be happy.
when I did my doo on my 2008, the spring had no tension, and while it was attached firmly to the two points it attaches to, it was laying on the inside of the case. you could flick it around it was so floppy. this is the common problem with the 2008 and up; the actual tensioner, or doohickey, has been upgraded, but the spring has been lengthened, as proven multiple times by a cross sampling of spring measurements throughout years. Do you honestly think that my balancer chain was tensioned properly the way it was installed? Do you honestly think that the chain would continue to be tensioned properly as the chain stretched?

Yes the stock doo in mine was a forged piece, but forged and machined are different. The factory forged piece is soft - the hardness specs of the materials eagle mike uses are like night and day. my balancer was egged out, as the shaft, which is of a harder and stronger material, started to deform the hole. Do you honestly think this part is going to live a productive and trustworthy service life, given the wear at only 7,000 kilometers? that's 5000 miles bub. this bike is barely broken in, and the doohickey is showing signs of imminent failure.

It's your bike, do your own thing, but please don't advise newbies that it isn't necessary because you don't think it's hokus pokus. You know yourself what a failed balancer chain can do.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:10 PM   #7565
sh1bby69
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Banjo Bolt

Hey guys just wondering what is the side for the rear banjo bolt for the '03 KLR650. Thread size and what not. I'm looking to swap it out for a double banjo bolt so that way I can add the sidecar brake.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:29 PM   #7566
UtahGuido
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Originally Posted by LilGreenBooger View Post
when I did my doo on my 2008, the spring had no tension, and while it was attached firmly to the two points it attaches to, it was laying on the inside of the case. you could flick it around it was so floppy. this is the common problem with the 2008 and up; the actual tensioner, or doohickey, has been upgraded, but the spring has been lengthened, as proven multiple times by a cross sampling of spring measurements throughout years. Do you honestly think that my balancer chain was tensioned properly the way it was installed? Do you honestly think that the chain would continue to be tensioned properly as the chain stretched?

Yes the stock doo in mine was a forged piece, but forged and machined are different. The factory forged piece is soft - the hardness specs of the materials eagle mike uses are like night and day. my balancer was egged out, as the shaft, which is of a harder and stronger material, started to deform the hole. Do you honestly think this part is going to live a productive and trustworthy service life, given the wear at only 7,000 kilometers? that's 5000 miles bub. this bike is barely broken in, and the doohickey is showing signs of imminent failure.

It's your bike, do your own thing, but please don't advise newbies that it isn't necessary because you don't think it's hokus pokus. You know yourself what a failed balancer chain can do.
All right, maybe you have a point. My engine had 20,000 miles on it, with the stock doohickey, when things went south, and maybe had my cam cap not broken off and dropped into the cam chain while driving down the freeway (like I said, its a long story) the balancer chain would have failed anyway. Your mileage, apparently, did vary.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #7567
SkiBumBrian
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IMS tank painting

About 6 months ago were wondering if sealing the IMS tank would allow painting... Yes it does. I apologize for the pics, they were done at night but felt I needed to get some flash on them to show any imperfections. The only flaw was and is right at the neck where the roughing up by drywall screws did not take that well and a small bubble occurred where the sealer did not want to stick. I sliced the bubble, it laid back down and have not had an issue anywhere on the tank since.
If you wish to paint your IMS or any other XLPS (cross linked poly styrene) tank the Blue Lightning sealer works flawlessly.
Here are a few pics showing the tank after many miles of off and on road usage.
The tank comes with a "finish" but it is flawed and looks less than professional.
I ain't no painter by trade but used a high quality automotive enamel and clear coat.
I could brush my teeth in the reflection. I stands out, it is durable and it looks awesome.

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Old 07-17-2013, 03:07 AM   #7568
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IMS tank Looks great!



Here's mine at the Ganny a few weeks ago.




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Old 07-17-2013, 05:43 AM   #7569
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The Doo and Springs.

The pre 08 doo was a two piece welded unit. It broke either at the weld, or a part of the lobe broke out. The 08+ is a machined part - at least mine is and not forged. The Emike unit is machined and then hardened. The Emike unit is closly toleranced as he has taken into account the stacked tolerances that gave rise to the sloppy stock fit. I had to relieve my Emike doo to get it on.

The original springs had a crimp mark on the hooks that cause the spring to fail at that point. Also, they were over hardened post coiling causing the spring to break in the coils. Emike springs are carefully bent to avoid the crimp mark and properly heat treated. The torsion spring is a great idea as it applies consistant tension over a wide range negating the need to have different lengths of springs. It is a once in the life of the motor deal.

There is very little tension on the balancer chain during tensioning by the spring. Just enough to take up the slop. Once the bolt has been tightened (secures on the lobe), all of the tension is then on the asymetrical shaft and sprockets. There is no possibility that the spring could cause any distress to the chain.

I am aware of two 08's+ imploding due to the balancer chain letting go. One at 12k the other at 20 k miles. In the 1st case the guy did not know to adjust the stock doo regularly and as the springs are too loose, it would not have helped anyway. Ignorance and neglect. In the second case the owner did adjust or thought he was, but that spring was also too loose.

Drop the washer/spacer on the asymetrical shaft into the motor and it will do damage. In one case I helped with it took out the alternator coils as it was picked up by the magnets of the rotor.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:18 AM   #7570
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Quote:
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Not to concern yourself. EMike was very involved in all of the development stages of the 685 with Cary of Schnitz. In fact when Cary passed, all of Cary's technical notes were sent (Willed) to Mike. EMike is one of the very best to deal with. Either company is excellent to deal with.
So is the 692 an evolution of the 685 or an entirely different piston etc???
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:56 AM   #7571
Tsotsie
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So is the 692 an evolution of the 685 or an entirely different piston etc???
The 685 was developed, 7 or 8 years ago. It was felt then by Cary and Mike to be the limit that the current sleeve design could take. They sourced pistons from JE. JE make hi-quality forged pistons for NASCAR etc here in the US. They determined that the cylinder assembly, if larger, needed another sleeve and so the 705 with the sleeve were sourced.

Cary has been gone several years now and Mike and others have explored the 692. I do not have direct experience with the 692 so cant comment in detail on it or its reliability. It does appear to offer an alternate if ones 685 wears out. I have 40K miles (64K km) on my 685 JE piston and it is still great with no oil usage.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:13 AM   #7572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
The 685 was developed, 7 or 8 years ago. It was felt then by Cary and Mike to be the limit that the current sleeve design could take. They sourced pistons from JE. JE make hi-quality forged pistons for NASCAR etc here in the US. They determined that the cylinder assembly, if larger, needed another sleeve and so the 705 with the sleeve were sourced.

Cary has been gone several years now and Mike and others have explored the 692. I do not have direct experience with the 692 so cant comment in detail on it or its reliability. It does appear to offer an alternate if ones 685 wears out. I have 40K miles (64K km) on my 685 JE piston and it is still great with no oil usage.
Cool, thanks. Well Mike's website does say the 692 was originally intended for when the 685 wore out [in what 250,000km??]... but that you could go straight to it from the 651.

And that's what I think I'll do unless someone can suggest why I should not.... 7 whole extra ccs of mind blowing power... but really I figure while it's all open I might as well go slightly bigger, just because I can, but can't be bothered with the whole resleeving hence not going bigger still....
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:07 AM   #7573
UtahGuido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
The Doo and Springs.

The pre 08 doo was a two piece welded unit. It broke either at the weld, or a part of the lobe broke out. The 08+ is a machined part - at least mine is and not forged. The Emike unit is machined and then hardened. The Emike unit is closly toleranced as he has taken into account the stacked tolerances that gave rise to the sloppy stock fit. I had to relieve my Emike doo to get it on.

The original springs had a crimp mark on the hooks that cause the spring to fail at that point. Also, they were over hardened post coiling causing the spring to break in the coils. Emike springs are carefully bent to avoid the crimp mark and properly heat treated. The torsion spring is a great idea as it applies consistant tension over a wide range negating the need to have different lengths of springs. It is a once in the life of the motor deal.

There is very little tension on the balancer chain during tensioning by the spring. Just enough to take up the slop. Once the bolt has been tightened (secures on the lobe), all of the tension is then on the asymetrical shaft and sprockets. There is no possibility that the spring could cause any distress to the chain.

I am aware of two 08's+ imploding due to the balancer chain letting go. One at 12k the other at 20 k miles. In the 1st case the guy did not know to adjust the stock doo regularly and as the springs are too loose, it would not have helped anyway. Ignorance and neglect. In the second case the owner did adjust or thought he was, but that spring was also too loose.

Drop the washer/spacer on the asymetrical shaft into the motor and it will do damage. In one case I helped with it took out the alternator coils as it was picked up by the magnets of the rotor.
Definitive post. Thanks.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:51 PM   #7574
JBradley500
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I really like this JNS Engineering radiator guard. Had it installed in about 5 minutes and that was with me really milking the job. It seemed a little pricey until i compared it to the stock radiator guard and now it seems like money well spent. One less thing to worry about.

The picture kind of sucks now that I look at it but whatever...

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Old 07-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #7575
One Fat Roach
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It looks constrictive... Maybe its just me. But then again I am a noob. I really need a new one, mine is held on by one screw and wire.

Ps are those the happy trail crash guards?? I have mine still in the box and was going to install them today.
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