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Old 11-20-2011, 04:16 AM   #16
BeeMaa
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Jay at DMC mentioned that running a rear tire on the front of the hack would be the way to go but didn't say which tire to use.
Thank you BMWzenrider for shedding a little light on this for me.
Looking forward to seeing what tire is mounted on my rig when it shows up.
Will give you an update when it does.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW View Post
holy crap....
i DO have the Tourance EXP on my bike
is it softer?
is THIS the reason?
User reports on the EXP consistently complain about the short life span, especially on commuter bikes that don't lean. I now run an Anakee II (harder compound on the contact patch) on my GS and they appear to be wearing very well. I'll probably put one on the GSA/sidecar rig.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:45 AM   #18
BeeMaa
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A lot of the heavy touring bikes run the Metzler ME880 and get many sMiles out of them.
My Harley buddies run the 880 as a replacement for the stock Dunlops and say they wear much better.
Also offered in the 110/90-19 size Karl suggested for $125 at motorcycle superstore.
Note : Still listed as a front tire, not a rear.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...ront-Tire.aspx
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWzenrider View Post
Ok, lets start with a bit more information for the studio audience and those at home.
The stock front tire size for your R1200GSA is 110/80R19.

When you say "recommended" tire pressure, do you mean BMW recommended value for the bike, max. sidewall pressure listed on the tire, or ????
{Generally speaking, when adding the extra mass/load of a sidecar, you want to run your motorcycle tires at max. sidewall pressure for best tire life. I won't go into the reasons here.}


And finally, the question that you really want to know; what tire could you, should you, would you buy???

-----

One thing that is really nice about the current tire sizing standards is that it gives you some information that you can use along with your current wheel/tire/fender/etc clearances to determine if some other size tire might fit.
The stock tire is nominally 110mm wide with a 80% aspect ratio (height/width) giving a tire height from rim to center of tread of about 88mm.
Doing some quick math says that the tire diameter when new should be about 25.9" (659mm). {I will leave the proof to the reader...}

Looking at the Metzeler catalog for the Tourance EXP 110/80R19 they give a new tire max width of 109mm, & max dia of 659mm.
Isn't math fun!!!

Now lets look at one of the photos that you have posted of your rig:



...it certainly looks like you could go up at least one size larger and still have clearance inside of your fender and/or forks.

That means besides looking for a 110/80-19 tire in a different compound, you could also be looking at a 120/70, 110/90, 100/90, etc...

A 120/70 tire would be a 10mm wider than stock and a bit shorter at 84mm.
The 110/90 tire would be the same width and 11mm taller (99mm).
A 100/90 tire would be a little bit narrower than stock, but about the same sidewall height at 90mm.


There are actually quite a few choices available in the 100/90-19 tire size.

Metzeler makes their long-mileage ME880 Marathon touring tire in that size.
The Dunlop Elite II or III tires are also excellent high mileage tires which come in the 100/90-19 size.

Bridgestone lists all of their tires by type and size for easy searching.
http://www.bridgestone.com/products/...cts/index.html

In general, I believe that any pure street tire should be a harder (longer wearing) rubber compound than a dual-sport, but if in doubt you could probably call the manufacturer to confirm that.

-----

As I said before, to get maximum life from your new front tire, be sure to keep it at or near the maximum allowable pressure printed on the sidewall of the tire.
It really DOES make a difference.

Hope that helps you get started on your search...
karl,
i was hoping that you'd lend your knowledge to this thread
you have sent me off in the right direction... thank you
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondox View Post
User reports on the EXP consistently complain about the short life span, especially on commuter bikes that don't lean. I now run an Anakee II (harder compound on the contact patch) on my GS and they appear to be wearing very well. I'll probably put one on the GSA/sidecar rig.
the annakee II is a great tire
i appreciate your experience with it, as well
thank you
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:27 AM   #21
leejosepho
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
This is mostly conjecture on my part, but it seems builders and dealers sometimes put excessive toe-in to make rigs feel more directionally stable then they really are for new riders.

My dealer set up my rig with 3/8" toe-in, it did track very straight and stable, but really went through tires. Now I run 0 toe-in, it does yaw more under throttle and braking, and does tend to follow the contours of the road more, but is easier to steer through the twisties, and the tires last much longer.

Once you get used to it and learn how to use it, a sidecars inherent instability can be a useful tool to control your rig.
Your actual experience certainly trumps any theory of mine, but I have been told 0 toe-in will result in wobble ... but then maybe that is actually just the seeming "looseness" you like to use as a control tool.

@Greg: Checking toe-in can be tedious and challenging with fenders and stuff in the way, but it amounts to placing straightedges or strings against the sides of the rear and chair tires and then measuring from one side to the other both at the front and the back (at the front of the front tire and at the back of the rear tire) to see how far the tires' tracks are from being parallel (0 difference).
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:27 AM   #22
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Morning Greg! I'm running a Heidenau K37 on the front. It's a tube tire & a real pain to mount on a tubeless rim, but I got more than 4K miles on it on the Alaska trip, loaded w/ my daughter & stuff, and riding fast.

The one I just took off had ~5k. I moved the pressure sensor from the front rim to the SC rim.

It works better than a Tourance. More contact patch means a bit less front tire pushing when accelerating on a loose surface. You still have to oversteer, but not as much. Works great, but the stock fender won't work, b/c the tire is not contoured like a M/C front tire. I made one out of a Ural front fender, some split rings, & hardware store AL.
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
@Greg: Checking toe-in can be tedious and challenging with fenders and stuff in the way, but it amounts to placing straightedges or strings against the sides of the rear and chair tires and then measuring from one side to the other both at the front and the back (at the front of the front tire and at the back of the rear tire) to see how far the tires' tracks are from being parallel (0 difference).
i appreciate that info
hmmmmmm
i have a project
thank you
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by AceRph View Post
Morning Greg! I'm running a Heidenau K37 on the front. It's a tube tire & a real pain to mount on a tubeless rim, but I got more than 4K miles on it on the Alaska trip, loaded w/ my daughter & stuff, and riding fast.

The one I just took off had ~5k. I moved the pressure sensor from the front rim to the SC rim.

It works better than a Tourance. More contact patch means a bit less front tire pushing when accelerating on a loose surface. You still have to oversteer, but not as much. Works great, but the stock fender won't work, b/c the tire is not contoured like a M/C front tire. I made one out of a Ural front fender, some split rings, & hardware store AL.
i appreciate your experience...
have always had my eye on that heidenau k37
another possibility
thank you very much
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:32 AM   #25
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Leading link

Greg, time to dream about a leading link with car tire in the front!
The handling and the breaking rely on the a very small contact area with a MC tire on a sidecar.Think about it, if you can have a front contact area X by at least 4! The handling in the twisties, and the breaking power will increase dramatically, especially when the road is wet. I will go with a leading link this winter with Claude. He is brainstorming right now about this new front end for the GS, and I will trust him 100%. There is some good reasons why almost all the europeen GS rigs have leading link! BTW I saw your post "I need to buy something for the GS.... please tell me what it is" in the the GSspot, and I 'm sure the LL will be $$$ well spend for your rig.
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:42 AM   #26
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Greg, time to dream about a leading link with car tire in the front!
The handling and the breaking rely on the a very small contact area with a MC tire on a sidecar.Think about it, if you can have a front contact area X by at least 4! The handling in the twisties, and the breaking power will increase dramatically, especially when the road is wet. I will go with a leading link this winter with Claude. He is brainstorming right now about this new front end for the GS, and I will trust him 100%. There is some good reasons why almost all the europeen GS rigs have leading link! BTW I saw your post "I need to buy something for the GS.... please tell me what it is" in the the GSspot, and I 'm sure the LL will be $$$ well spend for your rig.
DMC was NOT doing a LEADING LINK FRONT END when our rigs were there... or we would have SURELY had THAT done, too.
i love my rig... DMC did a great job
but, the one thing missing... THE LEADING-LINK FRONT END
maybe one day soon
thanks for the info
i really appreciate it
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW View Post
karl,
i was hoping that you'd lend your knowledge to this thread
you have sent me off in the right direction... thank you
No problem...
So, what pressure have you been running the Tourance at up till now?

Gotta run!
Food drive run being sponsored by the local BMW dealer this morning.
Weather is mostly cloudy and 38F degrees right now.

Get out there and RIDE!!!
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:14 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BMWzenrider View Post
No problem...
So, what pressure have you been running the Tourance at up till now?

Gotta run!
Food drive run being sponsored by the local BMW dealer this morning.
Weather is mostly cloudy and 38F degrees right now.

Get out there and RIDE!!!
karl:
i have ALWAYS run my bikes at maximum recommended pressures... UNTIL the rig came home
because so many folks SUGGESTED that i run less
front 33
rear 30
sidecar 28

normally (SIDECAR-FREE), i would have run
front 38
rear 42

have i SCREWED THE FRONT because of that
by the way
i ride like YOU....
accelerate briskly
brake the same
i love g-force
yes..... all that braking with only the tiny contact patch on that front tire
of course, my lowering the front tire pressure i have essentially INCREASED the contact patch size.....

as always, thanks for your help and thoughts
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:41 AM   #29
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When I put the hack on my GS I was still running the stock Tourances and getting about 5,000 miles out of the front and 2,500 out of the rear. After I put the Stroker rear wheel on I changed to a Metzler ME880 on the front and I get over 10,000 on these. I put a new ME880 on the front and a NEXEN SB802 on the rear before leaving on the Trans-Labrador trip last year and changed them both out this Summer before heading out to Ohio for the U.S.C.A. National. The old tires had around 13,000 on them and I could have probably done the Ohio trip with them but I like new tires and it is a minimal cost in my opinion for good insurance with new tires.

After running the ME880 on the front of the GS I now run the same tire all around the Ural in the Summer. I have two sets of rear wheels for the Ural and I keep one set shod in the Urashina knobbies and the second set in the Metzler ME880s and I change them depending on riding conditions.

As far as tire pressure I run max pressure printed on the tire by the manufacturer, I get grief from people for running the pressures too high but I guess it has worked for me for the last 40 years of riding so I don't feel the need to change at this point in life.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:47 AM   #30
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The GS and many dual sport type outfits are easy to get into an understeer (front end breaking loose) in left handers under power. The front tires are pretty small in comparison to many bikes. Small contact patch = less traction. Agressive riding will exagerate wear no doubt as that smallish contact patch is working pretty hard whether actual traction is broken or not. This is not to say that your tire wear is normal Greg. It seems excessive for what ever reason.

Reducing trail for easier steering is a good thing on many bikes. However this will not alleviate the issues related to a small front tire.

As many of you know Stroker has developed a 15" front wheel for the 1100 and 1150 GS bikes which is a decent solution. Due to the width constraints between the the front fork tubes a tire no larger than a 135r15 can be used. The reduction in overall rolling diameter compared to stock reduces trail somewhat with no other mods which can be a plus. It does, however, drop the front end slightly but that can be overcome.

The intent of the leading link is to allow a 165r15 on the front. We can also run the same wheel and tire on the sidecar with the 1100 and 1150 GS models ( rear tire can also be the same but the wheel is different so far) and with the 1200GS bikes one can run the same wheel and tire on all three corners. So you end up with 165s all the way around and have the ability to rotate them if desired. larger tires could also be utilized with slight design mods going into it.
Note that with a leading link the trail can be set to whatever is desired with no issues related to lowering the front end or binding the pivot area at the top of the fork tubes.

Adjustable trail can also be incorporated into aleading link design with little effort. More trail for the superslab to get from point 'a' to point 'b' and less for the twisties or once into the rougher stuff.

All things should be weighed when making a decision on which way to go. What is the cost vs value in the big picture for various systems. All things should be weighed and considered. The cost of tires, the cost of aftermarket shocks to help the tele lever vs typically less costly shocks on a link front. The list can go on and on.
And then there is th ecenterhub front ends....but that is another story :-)
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