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Old 11-27-2011, 06:21 AM   #16
lineaway OP
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Brewtus, hope you are going to SY today to start clerkin`. I`ll be home nursin` my wrist from a crash in a lower section. Can you say INT =ADV.
Mr. A Team see how fast no stop adds those additional points. You did bring up a memory of mine at TTC of a bad call by a not too friendly observer 1 section from the end of a day. 2nd to 5th place, wanted to protest it,but had planned to get on the road home asap.

lineaway screwed with this post 11-27-2011 at 06:31 AM
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Looks like the British championship and more has gone back to no stop rules to increase rider numbers. I like it, but sections would have to change or it would fall on the scorers.
Traditional trials sections can still add marks to even the best riders score card. I have seen many riders on modern equipment fail sections at vintage trials competitions.
As to 5’s being given out for stopping, I am sure that 5’s should only be given when someone stops and uses it to his advantage. Incidental stops should not be considered a 5 unless the bike rolls backward. Its the same as a rider brushing a shoulder on a tree. Its not considered a dab unless the rider uses the tree for balance or in some way to his advantage.

Dave

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Old 11-27-2011, 12:11 PM   #18
ridenm
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Allow me to get philosophical...

... 'cuz it's all I can do related to trials right now.

Trials is about riding the motorcycle. To me, riding means 'feet up.' What bothered me about clubs messing with stop 'n' hop is this idea about forward motion being critical. As far as I am concerned, if you have your feet up you are riding the motorcycle. If it's going forward, backward, sideways, or nowhere you are still riding the motorcycle as long as your feet are up. Penalizing lack of forward motion made observers' uncompensated work much harder and subject to argument.

I find stop 'n' hop far more dramatic to watch as a rider positions the bike for the perfect approach, then balances to collect the thoughts, revs the mill, then dumps the clutch and goes. But a time limit in the section is essential to make sure riders don't take too long to set up, and it enhances the drama.

When NMTA embraced no-stop a few years ago, it didn't change who was winning our upper classes. I remember watching Chuck and Eric letting the front wheels roll with amazing precision as they still hopped the rear wheels around for best position. But observers were asked to make more judgment calls about when motion stopped, and it just wasn't as much fun to observe when you were likely to cause a kerfluffle with a questionable five.

I want to see the rules as simple and exclusive of gray area calls as possible. No-stop goes the wrong way from that, and it means nothing to me as a fan that a rider is stopped, because as I said before, when your foot touches down, you are no longer riding the motorcycle, and that should constitute a penalty.

P.S., I personally agree that stopping with foot down .NE. 5 is a step backwards from the principle of riding the motorcycle.
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:33 PM   #19
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Ridenm, you hit the nail dead square on the head. I personally do not care how you get through the section (stop, hop, etc.), but put your foot on the ground and you take a penalty point.
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridenm View Post
... 'cuz it's all I can do related to trials right now.

Trials is about riding the motorcycle. To me, riding means 'feet up.' What bothered me about clubs messing with stop 'n' hop is this idea about forward motion being critical. As far as I am concerned, if you have your feet up you are riding the motorcycle. If it's going forward, backward, sideways, or nowhere you are still riding the motorcycle as long as your feet are up. Penalizing lack of forward motion made observers' uncompensated work much harder and subject to argument.

I find stop 'n' hop far more dramatic to watch as a rider positions the bike for the perfect approach, then balances to collect the thoughts, revs the mill, then dumps the clutch and goes. But a time limit in the section is essential to make sure riders don't take too long to set up, and it enhances the drama.

When NMTA embraced no-stop a few years ago, it didn't change who was winning our upper classes. I remember watching Chuck and Eric letting the front wheels roll with amazing precision as they still hopped the rear wheels around for best position. But observers were asked to make more judgment calls about when motion stopped, and it just wasn't as much fun to observe when you were likely to cause a kerfluffle with a questionable five.

I want to see the rules as simple and exclusive of gray area calls as possible. No-stop goes the wrong way from that, and it means nothing to me as a fan that a rider is stopped, because as I said before, when your foot touches down, you are no longer riding the motorcycle, and that should constitute a penalty.

P.S., I personally agree that stopping with foot down .NE. 5 is a step backwards from the principle of riding the motorcycle.



Spot on CJ!!
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:53 PM   #21
brewtus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridenm View Post
But observers were asked to make more judgment calls about when motion stopped, and it just wasn't as much fun to observe when you were likely to cause a kerfluffle with a questionable five.
Kerfluffle???


Word of the day calendar, right?

Seriously though, you make a damn good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Brewtus, hope you are going to SY today to start clerkin`. I`ll be home nursin` my wrist from a crash in a lower section. Can you say INT =ADV.

Oh, don't you worry. There's clerking to be done, that's for sure.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:23 PM   #22
ridenm
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Originally Posted by brewtus View Post
Kerfluffle???


Word of the day calendar, right?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kerfuffle
Seems appropriate in a trials context, coming from the mother tongue as it were...

Of course, turned out I was adding an 'L' all this time...

Quote:
Definition of KERFUFFLE

chiefly British
: disturbance, fuss
Examples of KERFUFFLE

"predictably, the royal scandal caused quite a kerfuffle on Fleet Street"

Origin of KERFUFFLE

alteration of carfuffle, from Scots car- (probably from Scottish Gaelic cearr wrong, awkward) + fuffle to become disheveled
First Known Use: 1946
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:51 PM   #23
Garthe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridenm View Post
... 'cuz it's all I can do related to trials right now.
Take it from me...your post count is going to get a heavy work out...

Being injured sucks...18 days, till I go under the knife.

I'm a noob...if I'm stopped, and my feet are still on the pegs...it's a really good day .
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:30 PM   #24
ridenm
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Originally Posted by Garthe View Post
Take it from me...your post count is going to get a heavy work out...

Being injured sucks...18 days, till I go under the knife.
Well, good luck to you. Hope you have an easier surgery than mine went. I'm just starting to get some range of motion in my left knee. Ortho appt in two weeks will let me know if I can start putting weight on the leg. Blood thinners will continue for months.

I'm hoping to at least start using the stationary bike soon. I am getting an upper body workout using a wheelchair at work--those hallways to the bathroom and breakroom are looong.

But the whole family will miss the last San Y trial of the year 'cuz I can't load bikes or follow the kids around. This season is a bust.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:45 AM   #25
darmst6829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Looks like the British championship and more has gone back to no stop rules to increase rider numbers. I like it, but sections would have to change or it would fall on the scorers.

Tony Down does a good job explaining his position on the stop no stop debate.
http://blackcatvintagetrials.com/200...r-no-stop.aspx

Dave
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmst6829 View Post
Tony Down does a good job explaining his position on the stop no stop debate.
http://blackcatvintagetrials.com/200...r-no-stop.aspx

Dave

Nice. Somehow that website got a "Sex" category tagged to it. The office filters picked it up and blocked it. Now I'll probably get a visit from the internet gorillas.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:53 AM   #27
darmst6829
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Nice. Somehow that website got a "Sex" category tagged to it. The office filters picked it up and blocked it. Now I'll probably get a visit from the internet gorillas.
Wow, that’s a constipated filter!
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:03 PM   #28
grizzzly
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I kinda think the “no stop rule” makes trials more dangerous because your not slowing down and gathering your thoughts and getting lined up. Instead it adds a lot of speed because if you miss your line you almost always have to use speed and momentum to get you through. So you wind up careening through the section out of control.

Ok I know that the whole careening through the section out of control is just my riding style but we are trying to ride tr_IA_ls not tr_AI_ls.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:04 AM   #29
lineaway OP
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Best quote from Tony D.; `If being stationary with a foot down only scores a one then I`m losing my mind!`
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:46 AM   #30
Sting32
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Pissed

Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Best quote from Tony D.; `If being stationary with a foot down only scores a one then I`m losing my mind!`
Why is that a best quote to you?

It is the stupidest thing I have heard!!!!!!!!!!

wait, we should also vote, to not wear helmets anymore, since they didnt used to?
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