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Old 05-14-2012, 11:41 AM   #661
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still seems an excessive penalty (and I am not a Hamilton fan).
P-10 would have been more realistic.

the punishment (back of the grid) did not match the crime at all.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:13 PM   #662
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What would the penalty have been if they had brought the car in with LESS than the required 1 liter of fuel remaining? It sems like the only greater penalty than they recieved would have been a non-start.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:39 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by srad600 View Post
Humm, I'm beginning to wonder if the Ferrari is as bad as the talking heads make it seem...a bit of sandbagging going on to spice things up?
To be fair to them, Ferrari have made a lot of changes but if you look at the qualifying performance versus race performance (at least as far as Alonso is concerned) prior to Barcelona, it seems that the car is better when it has a substantial fuel-load. If qualifying had to be completed with full tanks, I suspect that a more accurate measure of its performance viz the competition would show it in a better light.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:56 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Hamilton's McLaren apparently still had 1.3 liters of fuel -- enough to pass post-qualy inspection -- but the team didn't want to take a chance and ordered him to stop on track, incurring the penalty.
They forgot to include that the car had to have enough fuel to make it around the rest of the track AND have 1 liter to test. .3 wasn't enough to get him back to the pits.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:08 PM   #665
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They forgot to include that the car had to have enough fuel to make it around the rest of the track AND have 1 liter to test. .3 wasn't enough to get him back to the pits.
I wondered about that. I don't know what the fuel consumption is like when they're idling around the track. There's no time limit on it. So he could have gone as slow as he pleased.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:34 PM   #666
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No flames, but video of the firefighting. After watching this, I better understand the smoke inhalation problem. Impressive how the pit crews themselves seemed organized when deploying and manning the fire hoses. Computers, pit equipment a total loss. McLaren has offered to help replace it, which is fantastic. Cars apparently OK.

Force India were scathing about the track's own response to the fire.

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But while there was relief, there was also anger, with Force India’s deputy team principal, Bob Fearnley, scathing of the circuit’s emergency response crews. “Incompetent would be polite,” Fearnley said.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #667
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To be fair to them, Ferrari have made a lot of changes but if you look at the qualifying performance versus race performance (at least as far as Alonso is concerned) prior to Barcelona, it seems that the car is better when it has a substantial fuel-load. If qualifying had to be completed with full tanks, I suspect that a more accurate measure of its performance viz the competition would show it in a better light.
Agreed.

And in reality race pace should be more important than qualifying pace...and apparently is more important given Alonso's finishes this year.

If I were to setup a car/bike...whatever, for a race where i had to carry hundreds of pounds of fuel, it would be silly to set up the vehicle so that it worked it's best on low fuel. I think Ferrari may have outsmarted everyone here...time will tell.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:46 PM   #668
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Agreed.

And in reality race pace should be more important than qualifying pace...and apparently is more important given Alonso's finishes this year.

If I were to setup a car/bike...whatever, for a race where i had to carry hundreds of pounds of fuel, it would be silly to set up the vehicle so that it worked it's best on low fuel. I think Ferrari may have outsmarted everyone here...time will tell.
Doesn't explain Massa's finishes. I think Alonso is just that much better than his team-mate. Rumors of Senna going, couple that with a Massa retirement from F1, and it'd be a clean sweep of Brazilians.

wax, shame the vid got pulled, i saw it this morning tho, quite good coverage. nice grab
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:08 PM   #669
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Doesn't explain Massa's finishes. I think Alonso is just that much better than his team-mate. Rumors of Senna going, couple that with a Massa retirement from F1, and it'd be a clean sweep of Brazilians.

wax, shame the vid got pulled, i saw it this morning tho, quite good coverage. nice grab
It's possible Massa is just not on it anymore, may have little to do with the car? Although people do seem to have a very hard time getting around him in a race considering that he is "so slow and the car is so bad".
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:10 PM   #670
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It's possible Massa is just not on it anymore, may have little to do with the car? Although people do seem to have a very hard time getting around him in a race considering that he is "so slow and the car is so bad".
people have a hard time getting around the Marussia.... ask Alonso.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #671
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people have a hard time getting around the Marussia.... ask Alonso.
true...
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:20 PM   #672
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This business of race pace versus qualifying pace is an interesting one.

Many times we hear that a car has good race pace. But it finishes 5th or 6th because it qualified poorly.

Pole sitters haven't fared particularly well this season. And for Alonso to be sharing the driver's lead is remarkable.

But still, I would be very hesitant to downplay the value of qualifying at the front.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:59 PM   #673
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The disparity between the Ferraris qualifying and race performance is also hurting them when the race nears the end.

Certainly, pushing hard in Monaldos dirty air would have punished the tyres but as the Ferrari patently isn't good with a light fuel-load, Alonso had a limited opportunity to benefit from his new rubber before the design-penalty effectively ruined his chances.

This is going to make the Ferraris vulnerable to being overtaken towards the end of races too.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:40 AM   #674
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adjusting the brake ducts

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Old 05-16-2012, 10:09 AM   #675
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Is that a pit stop during practice? What are the front wing guys doing?

As an aside, no wonder F1's expensive. They even use carbon fiber to make the utility poles which support the air hoses above the car.
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