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Old 09-10-2012, 01:19 PM   #1261
srad600
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This spat between Hamilton and McLaren is absurd. Hamilton's not going to find a better car that wants him. He has a good thing going with McLaren.

And yet he and his agents are acting like petulant children. He didn't look his normal happy self at winning a race and he nearly "forgot" to go celebrate with his team before weighing-in at the end of the race. Without know anything about the guy, I can't help but wonder whether he's been spoiled rotten by McLaren's coddling over the years.

Just curious where you're getting this info? As far as I've seen/ read/ heard, Mclaren claims there's no bad blood, Hamilton says there's no bad blood, yet people keep "reporting" about the bad blood and how badly negotiations are going. Seems like a lot of reporter driven hype to me, but if you have a good link im all ears...
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:06 PM   #1262
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Just curious where you're getting this info? As far as I've seen/ read/ heard, Mclaren claims there's no bad blood, Hamilton says there's no bad blood, yet people keep "reporting" about the bad blood and how badly negotiations are going. Seems like a lot of reporter driven hype to me, but if you have a good link im all ears...
1/ You'd have to be very naive to take anything Hamilton and McLaren say publicly at face value. They're not complete idiots.

2/ Hamilton's strained relationship with his team has been an ongoing drama for several seasons. I assume you follow the sport. He's a drama queen.

3/ It's possible you believe that the recent stories about Mercedes are complete media fiction, invented by the BBC's Eddie Jordan (who is not above telling a whopper.) However, an astute observer of the European football scene will recognize the pattern immediately. Hamilton's negotiating a new deal, and his agents are floating anonymous stories in the news media as a way of putting pressure on McLaren. There's nothing new or remarkable about this tactic, it's an everyday occurrence. The shame of it is that it has the potential to even further strain the relationship between McLaren and their diva driver.

4/ I invite you to compare Hamilton's Monza reaction, both on his radio and after getting out of the car, to all of his other post-win celebrations. Both his chatter on the radio and his body language on the podium were noticeably more muted than in the past. Alonso looked more pleased with his third, I'm sure you'll agree.


Sometimes, where's there's smoke there isn't fire. Not often, though.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:13 PM   #1263
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1/ You'd have to be very naive to take anything Hamilton and McLaren say publicly at face value. They're not complete idiots.
Agreed, yet and still this is not evidence of a rift, just smart negotiations, and quite possibly good teamwork?

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2/ Hamilton's strained relationship with his team has been an ongoing drama for several seasons. I assume you follow the sport. He's a drama queen.

Quite possibly, but again, teams go through crap. The driver makes mistakes, the crew makes mistakes, we're all human. Sometimes a quibble is just that...although sometimes not.


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3/ It's possible you believe that the recent stories about Mercedes are complete media fiction, invented by the BBC's Eddie Jordan (who is not above telling a whopper.) However, an astute observer of the European football scene will recognize the pattern immediately. Hamilton's negotiating a new deal, and his agents are floating anonymous stories in the news media as a way of putting pressure on McLaren. There's nothing new or remarkable about this tactic, it's an everyday occurrence. The shame of it is that it has the potential to even further strain the relationship between McLaren and their diva driver.
Hammy has been rumored to be talking to damn near every top tier team this season. Honestly, who knows besides Hamilton and the team managers? People are simply making assumptions here, but as with all guesswork, the possibility of one being right is always there.


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4/ I invite you to compare Hamilton's Monza reaction, both on his radio and after getting out of the car, to all of his other post-win celebrations. Both his chatter on the radio and his body language on the podium were noticeably more muted than in the past. Alonso looked more pleased with his third, I'm sure you'll agree.
Geez, when he was hopping up and down people were getting on him for being too emotional, the phrase "shut up and drive" was used here somewhere. Now, when he's muted he's a diva...I know there's no pleasing everyone but c'mon. In my opinion he's been much more muted in his successes this year than in the past, and I can't attribute all of that directly to contract negotiations.

In the end, I'm guessing, just like you, and Eddie Jordan and many others. I'm just choosing not to believe the worst without evidence. BTW, in my impression, many drivers on the F1 grid can be considered divas, especially those driving for top tier teams (Vettel, Schumi, Alonso, etc...).


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Sometimes, where's there's smoke there isn't fire. Not often, though.
Sometimes, but sometimes the smoke is just a diversion.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:45 AM   #1264
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Srad, can't read that in red.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:59 AM   #1265
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:05 AM   #1266
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:58 AM   #1267
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In the end, I'm guessing, just like you, and Eddie Jordan and many others. I'm just choosing not to believe the worst without evidence. BTW, in my impression, many drivers on the F1 grid can be considered divas, especially those driving for top tier teams (Vettel, Schumi, Alonso, etc...).
Oh yeah, I agree with you completely about the diva drivers.

I was just thinking about Alonso. I cheer for Ferrari. I merely tolerate Alonso. He deserves credit for ingratiating himself with Ferrari, for being easy to work with, and of course for his outstanding driving. He owns that team right now.

As a result his public image has improved considerably. He's often magnanimous, never criticizes the team, seems like a good sport.

But give him a competitive teammate, make him an equal with that other driver, and watch the awful, paranoid, insecure and vindictive Alonso surface again.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:11 PM   #1268
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I trust The Guardian's reporting. They'e not tabloid, they don't fabricate.

Today's story on Hamilton is a fire. Some of the relevant bits:


Quote:
Lewis Hamilton left Monza following the Italian Grand Prix with a number of his McLaren team convinced he will walk away and join Mercedes next season.

Hamilton has upset some of his team with his increasingly idiosyncratic behaviour in recent weeks, in particular his decision to tweet confidential McLaren data before the Belgian Grand Prix a race that was won by Jenson Button with Hamilton crashing out on the first corner...

If he does remain the relationship will never be quite the same, because his behaviour has angered a number of people. He has badly scorched if not burned his bridges at McLaren, where team-mate Button's easy-going style has made him the more popular driver with engineers and mechanics.

The body language between Hamilton and his employers was muted on Sunday evening despite a weekend which had shown him at his scintillating best. Neither were the noises coming from the executive chairman, Ron Dennis, and the team principal, Martin Whitmarsh, conducive to bending over backwards to accommodate the demands of the driver's agents, XIX Entertainment.

So one of the most remarkable relationships in Formula One, which started with Dennis taking Hamilton under his Woking wing when he was 13, is in danger of breaking up...
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:22 PM   #1269
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If Lotus is to win a race this season, on which track are they most likely to do it?

A bit like Red Bull, the Lotus seems to be a high-downforce car that prefers slower tracks over long straights and top speed runs.

It didn't run particularly well at Monaco, the team's best numbers coming with Grosjean qualifying 5th and Kimi finishing 9th.

But the car has improved since then. Lotus did very well at slow-ish Hungary, Grosjean qualifying 2nd and Kimi finishing 2nd, Grosjean 3rd.

So does that augur well for Singapore? Is this Lotus' best chance? Or will Red Bull snatch the win, as they did at Monaco?
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:10 PM   #1270
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It seems like Kimi is running out of tire before whoever happens to win.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:41 PM   #1271
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I trust The Guardian's reporting. They'e not tabloid, they don't fabricate.

Today's story on Hamilton is a fire. Some of the relevant bits:


He's a very silly boy

He's earning millions at McLaren and they know how to win which Mercedes doesn't. And McLaren seemed to be committed to him which is unusual in any era of F1.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #1272
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It seems like Kimi is running out of tire before whoever happens to win.
I kept hearing how the Lotus/Renault was really good on tires, and a few of the earlier races seemed to bear this out. Could it be that they are good on tires BUT not good enough to go on a one-stop plan? Maybe they are caught in the middle of the tire wear issue? Not enough to make a one stop, but far enough that when the tires do start to fade they are beyond the window reference the rest of the field?

I know, it sounds stupid, but this is F1...
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #1273
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He's a very silly boy

He's earning millions at McLaren and they know how to win which Mercedes doesn't. And McLaren seemed to be committed to him which is unusual in any era of F1.
I agree completely. Very poor representation, IMHO. It sounds like they're trying to squeeze out one of those monstrous Kimi-at-Ferrari F1 contracts. But those days are long gone. Nobody spends that much on drivers anymore.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:42 PM   #1274
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I kept hearing how the Lotus/Renault was really good on tires, and a few of the earlier races seemed to bear this out. Could it be that they are good on tires BUT not good enough to go on a one-stop plan? Maybe they are caught in the middle of the tire wear issue? Not enough to make a one stop, but far enough that when the tires do start to fade they are beyond the window reference the rest of the field?

I know, it sounds stupid, but this is F1...
Kimi went one-stop at Monza. Schumacher had to pit and that's why Kimi got his spot. Good strategy by Lotus.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:04 PM   #1275
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