Noob to Trials. Which should I look for in a first bike?

[Sting32]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

The best engineered and most durable trials bikes are those made by Honda, and these are probably the best choice for a beginner especially if a used bike is being considered.

that statement is soooooo false... Sorry.

[Twin-shocker]

Must obviously be some more reliable and durable bikes around than the 315R and 4RT, which I cant have heard of?

Another option for a beginner is a Yam TY mono, which is bulletproof reliable, and as they are nowhere near as capable as modern bikes, will make learning the basics an awful lot easier for a new rider.

[IntrepidRunner]

Hey, Twin-shocker, how do I find out more about Honda trials bikes?

[Sting32]

I didn't reply faster, didnt wanna come off grumpy... but, I should of said, that's your opinion.

I believe most the bikes out there had the shortcomings they might of had, fixed by now. Not all maybe... Gas gas for instance, had a damn good bike from 95 to 2004 called t x t but they are old school now. Kinda like those hondas... lol

All new riders are on a 2 edged sword... in hindsight I have come to believe that starting with the newest, best bike out there, is best,IF POSSIBLE... then they don't have to relearn everytime a move up to BETTER lighter bikes. Especially true of old twin shocks, they weigh a ton, with crappy brakes and hard to pull clutch.

But kinda like you I'd rather see em get on something, then learn some things but I don't know if it's better, just usually cheaper/easier.



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[lineaway]

As much as I love old Honda trials bikes. I have to agree to disagree. Every single one that was ment for joe average was over engineered and not competitive except for the 315r which was a head of it`s time but took too long to get to production. By 2002 it was over for the others had caught up again and least we not forget they were gray marketed into the states. The 4rt would have been dominate, but the 4 stroke rule did not happen. It was heavy and tiresome to ride. Great bike, but the rules still favored the two strokes. (And Toni`s bike is not even close to stock for any comparison.)
Any Sherco or Beta from 2002 on would be my suggestion to any new rider. I know where`s the gassers? Until they make a real kickstart gear it is not reliable. Or find a bike they can afford. Trials can be learned on almost anything, but to compete takes something at leat a little modern. (Not including Vintage).
Enough of this, got to get back to building my nephews Yz125 for this weekend`s race. New crank kit, and big bore cylinder and head. Should make the kid grin.

[Sting32]

lineaway,

there was a problem with kickers on the older txt's? I didnt know, Ive been with a few of them, all the big bores which should have issues quicker, IMHO?

the 1st kicker I had problem with is 04 pro, and since then I learned to kick it differently. not sure that that is the solution but havent had teh problem on my '10 or dad's '11 pro 300 raga prototypes. But maybe I dont have the hours etc on them yet.... I probably ought to tear down and check.

Lastly, and you know I am GASGAS all the way baybee...

I still snicker, I might have kicker problems once in a long time, but the newest honda-tessa's I got to ride, feels like my OLD 321 (old TXT), same with up to 2011 Sherco's.

I really want to try out an OSSA, BUT, I read some had unpredictable throttle response in 2011? have you heard anything?

[Twin-shocker]

For a beginner who is more interested in learning the basics of riding, than hopping from rock to rock on the back wheel, a good condition 315R or 4RT (both effectively Honda's!) is going to be an awful lot better than anything else, with the possible exception of a Scorpa with TY motor.

I cant think of any bike thats on sale currently other than the 4RT, that doesnt have some sort of inbuilt problem areas, and some like Beta have been suffering with shoddy ignition systems which fail on a regular basis.

Quality wise the Ossa and JTG seem to be well ahead of the rest, but as a beginner is going to be able to ride an awful lot better after a year riding TS, rather than the latest bike, it would be very silly to consider either of these.

[lineaway]

Originally Posted by Sting32

lineaway,

there was a problem with kickers on the older txt's? I didnt know, Ive been with a few of them, all the big bores which should have issues quicker, IMHO?

the 1st kicker I had problem with is 04 pro, and since then I learned to kick it differently. not sure that that is the solution but havent had teh problem on my '10 or dad's '11 pro 300 raga prototypes. But maybe I dont have the hours etc on them yet.... I probably ought to tear down and check.

Lastly, and you know I am GASGAS all the way baybee...

I still snicker, I might have kicker problems once in a long time, but the newest honda-tessa's I got to ride, feels like my OLD 321 (old TXT), same with up to 2011 Sherco's.

I really want to try out an OSSA, BUT, I read some had unpredictable throttle response in 2011? have you heard anything?

No I was including all the pros. The old txt`s were almost bullet proof. Until Gas Gas totally changes the kick start design it will always be a thorn in it`s build quality. I think Dale has all you guys brain washed. I used to always ride Beta`s, but have been having fun on the PRO lately. We`ll see this weekend if I can get a good finish on this damn bike. It`s our first event this year and it looks like snowww!!

[Twin-shocker]

The older Gas Gas was a lot less fragile than those sold currently, which with hard use will need to be totally rebuilt after 6 months use. Never quite been able to figure why exactly anyone new to trials would be interested in a machine intended purely for top level competition, and needing pretty intensive maintenance to keep it in good working order?

[IntrepidRunner]

Great advice Twin-shocker, I'll start to look for a 315R or a 4RT. Are parts available?

[Sting32]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

The older Gas Gas was a lot less fragile than those sold currently, which with hard use will need to be totally rebuilt after 6 months use. Never quite been able to figure why exactly anyone new to trials would be interested in a machine intended purely for top level competition, and needing pretty intensive maintenance to keep it in good working order?

Well, see! you guys are comparing bikes that are about as equal as banana and a pear, honda being the pear in this thread for sure.

the 314/315, and dare I say 4rt, feel like PRE pro bikes. so when you say "most trouble free" and omit gasgas TXT's of old, is biased.

Your crazy remarks about the pro models means you must not be helping new riders (like I am). The pro bike has so damn much to offer. lately our new riders have been women. one has gone on to do well in amature on her 10 pro 250. the other is just now learning to ride, I'm hopin maybe this weekend, but more likely march she'll actually try novice, her first trial. Unlike most new riders, this gal didnt grow up riding dirt bikes, so EVERYTHING about riding is new, she's been riding a trials bike for barely 2 months.

Anyway, the 07 200 that she is on, has to be about the best bike they ever built for beginners, maybe a 125 could been better, but I dont like that (any 125 we've tried) just doesn't have bottom end enough to help lift front wheel, even though later when they have the "routine" down they can handle a 125 pretty good.

Anyway, the PRo 200/125 are light, nimble and not so scary, the clutch and the brakes work so well, everything I just cant see why you cant see that this is 100x better than having her try to ride my old fantic, or worse some old tank TL honda... I know gals dont want to pull on those old bike's clutches, they get tired too fast fighting all that extra weight. Fortunatley the 2 gals are related so they have ability to try each other's bikes, and yeah newest felt the 250 was definitely more powerfull which made her nervous... but we're also talking in about 3 months, she'd hand that 250 without a problem.

I havent heard of people breaking 200/125's kickers. usually just 300's that I have heard much about...

[Twin-shocker]

Gas Gas Pro is pretty fragile and has a number of inherent problem areas, the machines being produced now are much much better better than the earlier bikes, and for this reason its a good idea to avoid buying used.

Sure they are lighter and more competitive than things like the 315R and 4RT, but this isnt really that important for a new rider, who should be looking for something used, reasonably priced that isnt going to fall to pieces when its being ridden.

[lineaway]

Originally Posted by IntrepidRunner

Great advice Twin-shocker, I'll start to look for a 315R or a 4RT. Are parts available?

Depends on what country you are in. The montesa was grey marketed into the u.s.a. so no official importer. And the 4rt is a great bike except for the weight.

[LowPSI]

Montesa parts in US are available here:

http://www.overlandtrail.biz/

http://lewisportusa.com/

Parts in Canada here:

http://cascade-motorsports.com/

[lineaway]

Originally Posted by LowPSI

Montesa parts in US are available here:

http://www.overlandtrail.biz/

http://lewisportusa.com/

Parts in Canada here:

http://cascade-motorsports.com/

I knew that would bring out a quick response. Now I `m wondering if i`m just a lucky SOB having owned 14 Beta`s starting in 1989 and never had a single ignition failure and only rebuilt one motor for a main bearing failure. Other than a leaking float bowl everything else were common wear items. Just how did Beta become such a unreliable mount? I`ve heard all the horror stories of the stator problems, but I connot remember anyone in our local club replacing one. Seems all the trouble is across the pond and has more to do with moisture. So my vote for the best bike for a new rider would be a Beta for ride and build quality or Sherco for a light feel, user friendly power and a great importer. So enough of the same stuff of how only a jap bike is best for a NOOB.