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Old 02-10-2012, 10:25 PM   #46
sprinter27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Gas Gas Pro is pretty fragile and has a number of inherent problem areas, the machines being produced now are much much better better than the earlier bikes, and for this reason its a good idea to avoid buying used.

Sure they are lighter and more competitive than things like the 315R and 4RT, but this isnt really that important for a new rider, who should be looking for something used, reasonably priced that isnt going to fall to pieces when its being ridden.
As a owner of a few txt models and now a 250 raga,I have never had any issues with build quality or durability .in fact the worst trials bike I have ever owned was a monte 315,while the engine was sound it constantly made me wrench on it if I wanted to be able to make it home.
My best advise would be to get the best cared for machine you can afford
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:04 AM   #47
Twin-shocker
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Anyone who finds a 315R is unreliable and Gas Gas not, might not have experienced gear box failures, or frame and shock breakages, all of which are common problems on the GG but pretty much unheard of on anything made by Honda?
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:01 AM   #48
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i just go by what i have seen and found.shure i have read on the internet gasgas kick starts busting,but i have also read the cause is improperly installing the kick leaver.
i have been around trials for quite a while and have never once seen any of the issues you speak of on any of mine or the bikes my friends ride(and we are in a large gasgas bike area)
and yes i will stand by comments on a monte being somewhat unreliable,not really the fault of the bike other than they are past a decade old dirt bike now,and i'm one who enjoys the hobby of riding,not wrenching
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:28 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by sprinter27 View Post
i just go by what i have seen and found.shure i have read on the internet gasgas kick starts busting,but i have also read the cause is improperly installing the kick leaver.
i have been around trials for quite a while and have never once seen any of the issues you speak of on any of mine or the bikes my friends ride(and we are in a large gasgas bike area)
and yes i will stand by comments on a monte being somewhat unreliable,not really the fault of the bike other than they are past a decade old dirt bike now,and i'm one who enjoys the hobby of riding,not wrenching
Glad you have as yet not experienced any of the several problems affecting Gas Gas. I wonder are you riding expert route in national championship series events though? If not problems are far less likely, and may never affect anyone riding very easy club level competition. As to reliability the 315R is probably one of the most reliable machines ever made, and seems strange that if you had issues with a brand new machine, why your dealer was apparently unable to properly deal with them?
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:00 PM   #50
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I road the 4RT today, and loved it. Very smooth and controllable power. My first, and hopeful, not last, trials experience. A perfect noob bike.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:41 AM   #51
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I knew that would bring out a quick response. Now I `m wondering if i`m just a lucky SOB having owned 14 Beta`s starting in 1989 and never had a single ignition failure and only rebuilt one motor for a main bearing failure. Other than a leaking float bowl everything else were common wear items. Just how did Beta become such a unreliable mount? I`ve heard all the horror stories of the stator problems, but I connot remember anyone in our local club replacing one. Seems all the trouble is across the pond and has more to do with moisture. So my vote for the best bike for a new rider would be a Beta for ride and build quality or Sherco for a light feel, user friendly power and a great importer. So enough of the same stuff of how only a jap bike is best for a NOOB.
I would only like to add to your post, because I think lineaway, you are as right as I feel I am... IMHO get the most popular bike in YOUR AREA. Yeah Im in a bigger gasgas market area maybe (plains states, kansas to be exact).

Why do I say this? even if you had problems with the bike twinshocker thinks is the most trouble free!, you would have friends that probably already went through that problem, and all that. There are 2 montessa's in our club, not that there hasnt been more in the past, so I cant kick any more rocks at them, other than the ones still riden, felt like my 99gasgas txt...

I've started a lot of riders, and since I do that, I suggest Gasgas, because I carry some spares, my best freind carries even more spares, and orders what I need, when I need them. So to me, it is best for new riders to either be independently wealthy and patient, or have a bike like mine and 96% of the club we ride in... This is because most new riders arent necessarily mechanics per se... so I can at least loan spare parts, knowledge, or have a freind that might have a spare part, like levers or you know even other wear items... Plus my best freind, he's an invaluable person with knowledge on the gasgas, and some on some others.

if you have the same thing, for any other bike or brands in your area, then your newbies, will have that choice to make.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:46 PM   #52
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Well Dale must be doing something right. We had 14 gassers at our last event.Kinda crappy day with the snow. Only had 46 riders turnout. We usually get about 60 plus riders. Almost as many Sherco`s then it`s about even between the Beta, Montesa and the vintage class bikes as far as numbers.
Funny thing is most of the Beta riders are ex-4rt owners. We have another 4rt owner that `borrowed` a Beta 4 stroke and had his best ride ever. So much for the theory of what too ride.
Myself I`ve been talked into the vintage. We`ll see how long the club let`s me ride the montesa 200 in the morning and the gasser in our expert class in the afternoon. Probably will have to make a choice.
So in our club I would tell a NOOB to buy the best condition used bike he can find. They all ride the same anyhow,two wheels and a twist grip!!
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:52 AM   #53
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For any newcomer to the sport riding an old twin-shock for a season, will mean he or she will become a better rider an awful lot faster than doing a season on a modern bike. In most cases newbies end up with modern bikes of 250, 290, 300cc, rather than the 125 or 200cc machines that would suit most a lot better. In most cases struggling with a bike that has power which is a long way out of a beginners comfort range, makes gaining the basic skills required takes far longer than on low power TS bike.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:53 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
For any newcomer to the sport riding an old twin-shock for a season, will mean he or she will become a better rider an awful lot faster than doing a season on a modern bike. In most cases newbies end up with modern bikes of 250, 290, 300cc, rather than the 125 or 200cc machines that would suit most a lot better. In most cases struggling with a bike that has power which is a long way out of a beginners comfort range, makes gaining the basic skills required takes far longer than on low power TS bike.

And I feel from my teachings, the EXACT opposite. IF the "newbie" gets ON any motorcycle, they have to deal with the "power issue" and abillity to control and ride at the same time.... unless your talking about some freaking 5HP mopeds.

Hell, I can recall in the 80's people getting the same "cant handle the power" crap you describe, on my old montessa and or bultaco... times change, and like american democrats, so does everyone's memory of what actually happened.

Now it would be different, if the rules were NO STOP, then the huge -N- heavy twinshock wouldnt be holding them back as much.

Not going to keep arguing, I will conceed a little...

the bikes have trade offs, big heavy no brake twinshocks, or light and powerfull moderns. I know I have lots of bikes to choose from, TL's RL's even a 83/84 fantic 200... Everyone seems to like the modern... maybe they {newbies} decide that from watching youtube, I dunno.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:32 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
And I feel from my teachings, the EXACT opposite. IF the "newbie" gets ON any motorcycle, they have to deal with the "power issue" and abillity to control and ride at the same time.... unless your talking about some freaking 5HP mopeds.

Hell, I can recall in the 80's people getting the same "cant handle the power" crap you describe, on my old montessa and or bultaco... times change, and like american democrats, so does everyone's memory of what actually happened.

Now it would be different, if the rules were NO STOP, then the huge -N- heavy twinshock wouldnt be holding them back as much.

Not going to keep arguing, I will conceed a little...

the bikes have trade offs, big heavy no brake twinshocks, or light and powerfull moderns. I know I have lots of bikes to choose from, TL's RL's even a 83/84 fantic 200... Everyone seems to like the modern... maybe they {newbies} decide that from watching youtube, I dunno.

Obviously then the numerous new riders posting on various trials related chat forums all round the world, asking how to reduce the amount of power on whatever modern bike they are struggling to control, must be asking this often repeated question for no reason whatsoever?
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:08 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Obviously then the numerous new riders posting on various trials related chat forums all round the world, asking how to reduce the amount of power on whatever modern bike they are struggling to control, must be asking this often repeated question for no reason whatsoever?
And Im wondering if computers and internet were as prevelant, back in the 70's & 80's would the newby's not be asking the same questions? To me it is a ritual, right of passage to be scared of "the new bike, or riding"

I will say this one more time, I do not mean to try to say that there is NO MERIT to what you say, But, from my experience, I have consistantly felt the other way, so that is where I am comming from. For example, trials to "other riding" story.

In 88, I lived in sandiego, I was in the navy. My brother lived out there, has ridden motocross every since I have ridden trials in early 70's.

I bought a used 86 yz250... I recall the 1st few days, and I was almost "scared to death" of the "power", that damn thing produced. I was a good trials rider (kansas #1 Expert for 1983), but not ever good at going insanely fast like you have to do, to be good at motocross. But it was after a FULL couple of days of riding, and luckily no injuries I felt pretty comfortable on it..

My point is, we didnt take that YZ250, and try to slow it down! I didnt go buy an old crappy twinshock bike, with half the power and half the suspension to try to keep up with my brother and friends that ride motocross...

No, I practiced and practiced, and I got the "hang of it." BTW, all things being equal, my Brother's 88 Suzuki would run circles around that 86YZ in at that moment in time because, like a true MX'er he'd been adding things to the Suzi to make it even faster/quicker than the stock RM's let alone my YZ...

in 88, I rode novice in Brad Lackey's 1st annual Crhistmas Gran Prix. That sonofa beyotch used 4 racetracks and the fields around them, every thing he could use to make this course, only thing he didnt use (was my favorite remark) was the friggin skate park that was at the entrance to Carlsbad raceway... My heat was a 45 minute heat, I rode 40 minutes and made 3 laps, (I was NOT in last place either). around or near 40 minutes, I then fell off the bike... layed there for a few minutes, got back up, rode to S/F then to the pits... hardly able to breath... Yep rib injury... that was my last Motocross... I think I would have liked regular MX, but running WFO in High gear over bumpy trails, is just not my cup of tea.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:55 PM   #57
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Sorry I thought the thread was about trials not MX bikes! Modern trials bikes are designed to win WTC level events, but very few riders are anywhere near good enough to ride that well. This being the main reason so many riders ask about detuning their modern bike.

In most cases 125 or 200cc modern bike will work a lot better for anyone less than expert standard rider, and being overbiked and having a need to detune, is very often the result of buying a 250/280/300, when a 125 or 200 would have been a far better choice, and would have meant less marks lost.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:42 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
I bought a used 86 yz250... I recall the 1st few days, and I was almost "scared to death" of the "power", that damn thing produced. I was a good trials rider (kansas #1 Expert for 1983), but not ever good at going insanely fast like you have to do, to be good at motocross. But it was after a FULL couple of days of riding, and luckily no injuries I felt pretty comfortable on it..
So an experienced, expert level rider was "scared to death" of the power. Think how a new rider would have felt.
Same with trials bikes.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:27 PM   #59
Twin-shocker
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So an experienced, expert level rider was "scared to death" of the power. Think how a new rider would have felt.
Same with trials bikes.

If he was scared of a 250, then I dread to think what effect an open class bike would have had!

New trials riders progress far faster if they are on user friendly machinery, and putting a beginner on a 300 Raga is really rather silly.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:04 AM   #60
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Well I did my first Trials at Cougar Buttes

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I want to buy a used trials bike and Im just not sure what to look for. I started riding dirt bikes on a Honda 50 when I was 5 years old. Im now 46. I ride street, dirt & dual sport, and I was even into Fast50s racing for a few years (some of the most fun Ive ever had on a bike). My question is this: what kind of trials bike do I look for? From some of the research I have done, I think I want a year 2000 to 2005 and to spend around $1800 to $3000. Im not too sure what size engine to look for. Should I look for 2- stroke or 4-stroke? It looks like 4-strokes cost more money. Is it worth it to go with a 4-stroke as a first trials bike? Let me know what you think.
I did my first trials Sunday at Cougar Buttes Sunday and MAN what a blast. It wore me out more than I tought it would. I ran the sportman class. I not sure where I came in at but I dont really care, Im just out to have fun. I meet a lot new cool people and I will be doing this more.
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