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Old 08-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #286
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Its going to take me a few years to adjust to that.


Did you hear Seattle is now in the NFC?

East?

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Old 08-06-2012, 07:23 PM   #287
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Penn State or George Romero

Obviously, I was a Bill O'Brien fan before he landed this gig. He is a good man, with a good message. You can read it here.

I hope he is successful in his endeavor to try and fix a mess not of his making. It is not going to be easy, if at all possible.

Personally, I think there may have been better ways to penalize Penn State. These players and coaching staff had nothing to do with any of the issues. Severe financial penalties make more sense to me. Allow these people to compete, but do not allow Penn State (the institution) to profit seems more beneficial to me. Can you imagine what could be done with those millions? Perhaps even go back to when this first became known, and covered up, and penalize them for all profits earned from that date and an equal time-frame into the future. Now there will be no, or at least a whole lot less, money to donate and the program, sadly, will most likely go into SMU territory. I know many will not hear, nor will care to hear Bill's words. But he gets it.

Will he make it work, or will it be the latest bad George Romero story line?
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:58 AM   #288
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Obviously, I was a Bill O'Brien fan before he landed this gig. He is a good man, with a good message. You can read it here.

I hope he is successful in his endeavor to try and fix a mess not of his making. It is not going to be easy, if at all possible.

Personally, I think there may have been better ways to penalize Penn State. These players and coaching staff had nothing to do with any of the issues. Severe financial penalties make more sense to me. Allow these people to compete, but do not allow Penn State (the institution) to profit seems more beneficial to me. Can you imagine what could be done with those millions? Perhaps even go back to when this first became known, and covered up, and penalize them for all profits earned from that date and an equal time-frame into the future. Now there will be no, or at least a whole lot less, money to donate and the program, sadly, will most likely go into SMU territory. I know many will not hear, nor will care to hear Bill's words. But he gets it.

Will he make it work, or will it be the latest bad George Romero story line?
Somehow Ol' Billy will make it, what with his 9 year contract at $2.3 million a year, with a 5% increase each year. Best part of it is that he is under no pressure to win because of such low expectations. He's gonna be living a coaches dream for the next 9 years.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:42 AM   #289
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Personally, I think there may have been better ways to penalize Penn State. These players and coaching staff had nothing to do with any of the issues. Severe financial penalties make more sense to me. Allow these people to compete, but do not allow Penn State (the institution) to profit seems more beneficial to me. Can you imagine what could be done with those millions? Perhaps even go back to when this first became known, and covered up, and penalize them for all profits earned from that date and an equal time-frame into the future. Now there will be no, or at least a whole lot less, money to donate and the program, sadly, will most likely go into SMU territory. I know many will not hear, nor will care to hear Bill's words. But he gets it.
I've been trying to figure this out. One of the problems of NCAA sanctions is they hit those who didn't do it. Calipari cheats and then moves to another program while his previous program suffers the consequences. Then he does it again and he moves to one of the big name schools of basketball while, again, his previous institution is punished.

Hard to punish JoePa (though I do agree with the removal of victories, merely as a way to remove him from the record) but I think the NCAA should do something symbolic in addition to the fines you proposed. Maybe no post season, or any & all (Big10 doesn't get a cut) post season money goes to a scholarship fund (Nationwide) for children affected by abuse.

The NCAA came down hard on a Florida State academic aid who was part of their cheating (but not the Coach ) Three years away from NCAA schools. The gang of four at Penn State should receive a life time banishment.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:50 AM   #290
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I've been trying to figure this out. One of the problems of NCAA sanctions is they hit those who didn't do it. Calipari cheats and then moves to another program while his previous program suffers the consequences. Then he does it again and he moves to one of the big name schools of basketball while, again, his previous institution is punished.

Hard to punish JoePa (though I do agree with the removal of victories, merely as a way to remove him from the record) but I think the NCAA should do something symbolic in addition to the fines you proposed. Maybe no post season, or any & all (Big10 doesn't get a cut) post season money goes to a scholarship fund (Nationwide) for children affected by abuse.

The NCAA came down hard on a Florida State academic aid who was part of their cheating (but not the Coach ) Three years away from NCAA schools. The gang of four at Penn State should receive a life time banishment.
Makes sense... why don't they get it?

I don't think anyone involved in the cover-up needs to submit a resume to any educational institution as long as they live. There would be harsh public consequences to anyone having involvement with them now.

Bub, I think Bill is more competitive than that. I don't think this is about money for him, or getting a payday to yell on a field. He can do that almost anywhere.

Having watched him at practices and in competition, he is quite intense (and that is mildly put). He wants to win more than breathe. He has a Herculean task to position himself for that, even in nine years. I figure that he could just be cresting the storm in nine years if these sanctions stand. I have read the BOT is going to challenge them; that remains to be seen. And does not put them in a good light if they do challenge it. I just think the NCAA missed a chance to do some good here instead of just acting strong armed. Maybe there was no legal way to execute a proposal as I suggested it. It just seems tragedy is piling on tragedy.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #291
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Guys...Penn State does not miss a beat as far as playing goes, they play their full schedule, but will be bowl ineligible for four years. The fine was big, but it is being paid out over several years and the Big 10 will withhold their share of post-season money, about $13 mil, that will go to programs that help abused kids. PS football is said to bring in $60 mil a year. And, they lose a few scholarships for 4 years.

There is no appeal because PS negotiated the settlement!

A lot of people think that PS got off pretty easy, count me among them.

And, BTW, they've said they got the "fines" covered, won't have to go to the taxpayers for a bailout.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #292
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Makes sense... why don't they get it?

I don't think anyone involved in the cover-up needs to submit a resume to any educational institution as long as they live. There would be harsh public consequences to anyone having involvement with them now.
I disagree we should give them a scarlet letter and send them on their way. I don't think the NCAA should have that right or ability. It scares me that anybody would say that or that the NCAA could potentially have that much power. I actually think that the punishment they handed down is a bit of a stretch for them (the ncaa). The NCAA is a governing body for sports - and nothing else. I'm not sure they got this message.

I actually agree with exactly what's going on right now - letting the justice system handle it. If these people are serving time you don't have to worry about them coming back to Academia. If they serve time for something they did at a university, you especially don't have to worry about them coming back to Academia. What happens to the faculty involved is outside the scope of the NCAA and should have no bearing.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:44 AM   #293
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Just signed up for the Pick' Em, you guys and gals are going down this year!!!


I can not wait for CFB!!
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:45 AM   #294
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Guys...Penn State does not miss a beat as far as playing goes, they play their full schedule, but will be bowl ineligible for four years. Which is a big deal when you're recruitingThe fine was big, but it is being paid out over several years it amazes me how little sense you have sometimes. Ask ANY business for 20% of their revenues for five years in a row and most wouldn't be able to survive.and the Big 10 will withhold their share of post-season money, about $13 mil, that will go to programs that help abused kids. So they're losing more than one year of revenuePS football is said to bring in $60 mil a year. And, they lose a few scholarships for 4 years. that's the worst blow considering you're hurting potential athletes that didn't do anything wrong

There is no appeal because PS negotiated the settlement!

A lot of people think that PS got off pretty easy, count me among them.

And, BTW, they've said they got the "fines" covered, won't have to go to the taxpayers for a bailout.
so lets hear what your punishment would have been.

edit: and keep in mind you're the NCAA, not a judge.

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Old 08-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #295
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Guys...Penn State does not miss a beat as far as playing goes, they play their full schedule, but will be bowl ineligible for four years. The fine was big, but it is being paid out over several years and the Big 10 will withhold their share of post-season money, about $13 mil, that will go to programs that help abused kids. PS football is said to bring in $60 mil a year. And, they lose a few scholarships for 4 years.

There is no appeal because PS negotiated the settlement!

A lot of people think that PS got off pretty easy, count me among them.

And, BTW, they've said they got the "fines" covered, won't have to go to the taxpayers for a bailout.
I do not feel bad for the institution, or the financial burden they need to bear. They earned that on their own. Quick math using your numbers, my suggested penalty would have been around $2.5B.

But the program will not be getting the top recruits during the ban, and it will take time once it is over to rebuild that level to a premier program. SMU still has not recovered. It is too important to these kids to shine on bowl day for their next opportunity. Who will want to play at Penn State in the near future if others are courting them? Sure there will be the few that will....but enough? Plus, the stigma of this will affect recruiting for years as well. Many, many parents, rightly so, will put their foot down to allowing their son to play there. As Jurgen appropriately stated, the committed kids are paying for someone else's sins. Or they have to transfer. That used to cost you a year in redshirt; I am not sure what the current protocol is on active player transfers.

Where did you get they participated? I am thinking back awhile and may be all wrong, but word I remember reading was; the commissioner came up with this on his own over the weekend after the report hit his desk and would announce at 11 am on Monday. I do not disagree he had to do something big, make a statement. I would think there would have been tons of fuss over PSU having any say in the situation. More perceived collusion.

I just don't think this is going to be an inconvenient bump in the road for the Nittany Lions.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:23 PM   #296
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I do not feel bad for the institution, or the financial burden they need to bear. They earned that on their own. Quick math using your numbers, my suggested penalty would have been around $2.5B.
- that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. $2.5 billion? are you trying to punish an institution or put them out of business? Penn State only made $647 million in revenues in 2008, when the economy was still good. I imagine that number is less now. Don't believe me http://econimpact.psu.edu/ 2.5 billion would shut down the university and punish the state of Pennsylvania, not just the university.

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But the program will not be getting the top recruits during the ban, and it will take time once it is over to rebuild that level to a premier program. SMU still has not recovered. It is too important to these kids to shine on bowl day for their next opportunity. Who will want to play at Penn State in the near future if others are courting them? Sure there will be the few that will....but enough? Plus, the stigma of this will affect recruiting for years as well. Many, many parents, rightly so, will put their foot down to allowing their son to play there. As Jurgen appropriately stated, the committed kids are paying for someone else's sins. Or they have to transfer. That used to cost you a year in redshirt; I am not sure what the current protocol is on active player transfers.
There are special rules allowing students that attend a school on probation to transfer without the year wait.

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Where did you get they participated? I am thinking back awhile and may be all wrong, but word I remember reading was; the commissioner came up with this on his own over the weekend after the report hit his desk and would announce at 11 am on Monday. I do not disagree he had to do something big, make a statement. I would think there would have been tons of fuss over PSU having any say in the situation. More perceived collusion.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...-death-penalty

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I just don't think this is going to be an inconvenient bump in the road for the Nittany Lions.
so, fine them 2.5 billion dollars then?
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:35 PM   #297
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Hard to separate the crime from the program, since they actively participated in the cover-up NS. No different than if they were peddling drugs for comparison. A crime, not football related, but the program was doing it for whatever reason, pick one. Therefore the NCAA needs to protect the integrity of all athletics and make a sanction. They are playing under their jurisdiction. If the cover-up had been just administrative as reported early on, then I would side with you. Outside the athletic department., not the NCAA's bailiwick, let the legal system take care of it. But it extended well into the coaching staff as we now know. And for the sole purpose of protecting their own interests. Totally human nature, I get that, and a sure fire way to get your self in a whole heap of trouble. It did.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:46 PM   #298
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so, fine them 2.5 billion dollars then?
His number...40+ years, which I am sure is a gross, not profit. To be paid as earned. Abstract.

Thanks for the link.

The decree states the evidence against Penn State "presents an unprecedented failure of institutional integrity leading to a culture in which a football program was held in higher esteem than the values of the institution, the values of the NCAA, the values of higher education and, most disturbingly, the values of human decency."

Why the NCAA felt they had jurisdiction here.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:48 PM   #299
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Hard to separate the crime from the program, since they actively participated in the cover-up NS.
that would be true if paterno's staff was still there. to my knowledge, there's not a single person that was on paterno's staff that's now on obrien's.

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No different than if they were peddling drugs for comparison.
uh, no. it would be no different if the guy that had the job before me was peddling drugs and then I went to jail for it. Who was involved in the cover up and still has a job at Penn State?

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A crime, not football related, but the program was doing it for whatever reason, pick one. Therefore the NCAA needs to protect the integrity of all athletics and make a sanction. They are playing under their jurisdiction. If the cover-up had been just administrative as reported early on, then I would side with you. Outside the athletic department., not the NCAA's bailiwick, let the legal system take care of it. But it extended well into the coaching staff as we now know. And for the sole purpose of protecting their own interests. Totally human nature, I get that, and a sure fire way to get your self in a whole heap of trouble. It did.
seems to me you're punishing people who had no involvement. you're punishing the new coaching staff for the crimes of the old staff. Is that really what the NCAA considers fair?
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:51 PM   #300
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His number...40+ years, which I am sure is a gross, not profit. To be paid as earned. Abstract.

Thanks for the link.

The decree states the evidence against Penn State "presents an unprecedented failure of institutional integrity leading to a culture in which a football program was held in higher esteem than the values of the institution, the values of the NCAA, the values of higher education and, most disturbingly, the values of human decency."

Why the NCAA felt they had jurisdiction here.
back it up. You're in favor of taking away revenue from Penn State for years before the cover up took place?
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