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Old 06-22-2013, 02:17 PM   #226
kaput13 OP
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Originally Posted by woodnbow View Post
The other part of the problem is that everyone likes to tell Harley that they should build something sportier with more power and better handling (thinking FXR in the early eighties, Sportster Sport in the late nineties, then of course Buell) So Harley does, and they just don't sell, or they do but then get chopped into cruisers meanwhile 883 Lows, Lowriders, Softails and Flt's just keep flying out the door. Hard to blame the company for sticking with proven winners. Apparently enthusiastic sport riders don't amount to much demographically speaking..

Yup that's the sad disappointing lowdown. Those rumors about that smaller cheaper Harley have faded too. Screw it. I'll settle for a faster, lighter, cheaper used sportster.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:14 PM   #227
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lighter HD?

Yep. Recently bought this. Really diggin' it!....
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #228
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sweet! Love that setup and fairing. Any more pics?
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:57 PM   #229
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Take a look at what moto morini is doing....nice stuff very NOT HD...

http://www.motomorinimotorcycles.eu/...category_id=44
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:03 PM   #230
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They already make a girls bike
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #231
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They already make a girls bike
What is a girls bike?
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:41 AM   #232
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What is a girls bike?
A Road King, apparently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuyz3WDap9Q
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:40 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by skierd View Post
Ground up redesign for the sportster. Keep the classic styling, keep the air cooled v-twin, but make it 100-150 pounds lighter. Give it some performance swagger to go with the awesome looks.
Yes! Please!

Quote:
Maybe its time for a unit construction motor thats more compact with the same displacement options? Add direct injection? Add balance shafts ? Go back to a chain or a more direct belt drive setup thats more efficient weight wise?
The Sportster has been unit construction since before it was Sportster, are you talking big twins now. Oh, wait, i should read the entire thread before replying... I'm guessing this already been addressed...
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:08 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by woodnbow View Post
The other part of the problem is that everyone likes to tell Harley that they should build something sportier with more power and better handling (thinking FXR in the early eighties, Sportster Sport in the late nineties, then of course Buell) So Harley does, and they just don't sell, or they do but then get chopped into cruisers meanwhile 883 Lows, Lowriders, Softails and Flt's just keep flying out the door. Hard to blame the company for sticking with proven winners. Apparently enthusiastic sport riders don't amount to much demographically speaking..
This.

If they build will they come? NO. Harley keeps trying, how about the Dyna Sport? Great bike, but doesn't sell. I've been looking at the Switchback as a light two up touring bike.

I've owned a solid mount 883 converted to 1200 converted to S&S 89' stroker, I've owned a Buell S1 Lightning, a FXRP, a KLR650, a DR650, a XL600, a SV650 and currently own a 2004 XL1200C, (and no DR650 is going to beat any of the above in a drag race, maybe, maybe my old 500,000 mile AMF Shovelhead) and they have all been fine bikes that would have served anybody not wanting a typical cruiser, something with good power and ability to tour or go fast cheaply.

The 2004 1200C has forward controls and pull back bars which sucks ergonomically, which is a shame because the bike will run 90 all day long on the interstate all day long without missing a beat. BUT as pointed out, I can (and have) change all of that for pennies on the dollar. The aftermarket is crawling with exactly what you want. Even Harley offers great accessories for the bikes. While I don't want to pay what the dealer wants for a set of Hard bags for my bike, I at least know they offer a really high quality set. A better seat, (a buddy who builds custom seats for choppers is building me one) A windshield, a set of Led Sled floorboards (cheap too) and the bike is a better tourer than my FXRP was which was a far better touring bike than the Electra Glide or Gold Wing even. The 1200C's are cheap too. AND the amount of customizing information for the XL is amazing.

My little brother owns a bone stock FI 883, no performance upgrades at all and I can't believe how great a bike it is. 130 miles on the smaller tank and comfortable with mid mounts and taller shocks. He literally has ridden coast to coast with no complaints, probably because somebody who doesn't own and ride his bike daily hasn't informed him what it can't do.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:28 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Flynch View Post
He literally has ridden coast to coast with no complaints, probably because somebody who doesn't own and ride his bike daily hasn't informed him what it can't do.



Thank you. That pretty well sums it up.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:35 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Flynch View Post
My little brother owns a bone stock FI 883, no performance upgrades at all and I can't believe how great a bike it is. 130 miles on the smaller tank and comfortable with mid mounts and taller shocks. He literally has ridden coast to coast with no complaints, probably because somebody who doesn't own and ride his bike daily hasn't informed him what it can't do.
Absolutely.

The beer guts astride big twins want to mock the sportster riders too, but people have been criss crossing the world on small sporty bikes that didn't have a radio, barn door fairing, or 100+ lbs of torque for longer than big touring rigs have been around.
If you don't listen to people trying to reinforce the status quo, especially the people who don't ride more than a few miles a year, you can do a lot of cool things you're not supposed to do.

This is the market Harley seems largely unable to capture with all their black sheep marketing.

But a few like your brother just buy what they like and do what they want. That's legit.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:06 PM   #237
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sweet! Love that setup and fairing. Any more pics?
The fairing and bags were on it when I bought it. I changed out the FLH bars for XLX's. Added the Mustang vintage touring seat. Also put on Street Glide airshocks and PS springs in front. Removed the sissy bar. and some extra chrome junk. Much better ride and control now. An HD hating, vintage BMW riding friend rode it yesterday. Came back afterwards, allowing it's a real motorcycle now.......As I got it.....
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:10 PM   #238
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IMO Harley messed up by messing up the Sportsters. I loved the look of the old Ironhead bikes, and even the '80s and early '90s models. The 1200 is way to expensive for an entry level bike. The only 883s currently left are the Iron and SUPER low. Both are way too small. I seriously considered one, but it is like sitting on the ground. A midget could flat foot these bikes.

Harley builds v-twins. That is all they are known for. That is what buyers want, including beginners. I wish they would build a 250cc sized bike, similar to a Virago 250, only make it a real Harley. Give it a long stroke and single crankpin 45 degree engine, so it would still make the iconic Harley sound, and sell it for about $5000.

Everybody seems to want Harley to build a sport bike, except their actual customers. They tried that with Buell, and lost money. I think they need to stick with v-twin cruisers, just build a smaller one. Of course it would have to be built in China to keep the price down, but many Harley parts are already built in China.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:57 AM   #239
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Harley Davidson is in business to earn a profit for its shareholders. If it believed that it could increase its profit by building a smaller motorcycle, an adventure-tourer, or a sportbike, it would be building any or all of those by now.

A manufacturing and assembly plant for a small cc motorcycle costs as much as one for a larger motorcycle. The wage/benefit rates are the same. Corporate burden costs for engineering and marketing and capital are the same. And profit per unit is less, as percentage of sales price.

So no, don't expect HD to offer a bike any smaller than the 883. Or any bike that would need everything other than the engine to be newly designed, engineered, tested and assembled.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:17 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by MHaz01 View Post
Harley Davidson is in business to earn a profit for its shareholders. If it believed that it could increase its profit by building a smaller motorcycle, an adventure-tourer, or a sportbike, it would be building any or all of those by now.

A manufacturing and assembly plant for a small cc motorcycle costs as much as one for a larger motorcycle. The wage/benefit rates are the same. Corporate burden costs for engineering and marketing and capital are the same. And profit per unit is less, as percentage of sales price.

So no, don't expect HD to offer a bike any smaller than the 883. Or any bike that would need everything other than the engine to be newly designed, engineered, tested and assembled.
You're no manufacturing executive.
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