ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #76
kaput13 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
kaput13's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: South Florida
Oddometer: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwthump View Post
What size was the old Harley thumper in the first shot? My dad had a similar one years ago that I used to ride around on country roads in central Illinois. Fun bike but the shifter was also on the right and had a left side kick starter which kicked back sometimes! I think it was around 350cc or so.

Darren
'09 KLR 650

The bike pictured in the first shot was a 250cc. The engine displacement increased to 350cc in 1969.
kaput13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 01:25 PM   #77
squish
Out of the office.
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Where the Ghetto meets the sea.
Oddometer: 6,013
The deal is HD doesn't need an entry level bike,
HD is a destination brand, it's the brand that people want to own. So why should the make a starter bike.
They cost nearly as much as a big bike yet bring less profits.
They are hard to market
If you design them right the market's shun them for being weird or ugly (See Buell)

Pluss plenty of folks start riding on a sportster anyway, so that works just fine for them as an entrylevel bike.

It's interesting that the OP posted a pick of the Sprint, which was built in the same factory that HD bought and then PAID to have someone take it off their hands when the bought the whole MVAgusta debacle.
__________________
On vacation for a spell
squish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 04:46 PM   #78
HapHazard
t00 0ld 2b n00b
 
HapHazard's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Central CT
Oddometer: 2,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmelby View Post
The bike felt solid and was fun to rip around on. I wasn't too impressed with the motor, seemed to run out of breath at above 5500rpm.
I have a solid-mount 883, and have ridden several solid-mount 1200S models. If you ride a Sportster like you'd ride an SV650 (or even my 650 Hawk GT) that is exactly correct, the powerband is pretty short (all bottom & low midrange) - and the vibration also discourages revving it out.

The Sportster looks very good and has a "vintage" feel to ride. I don't see why HD couldn't build something with a more modern 750 class motor (wider usable powerband and less vibes in a light, solid mount frame with decent travel suspension) that still had a strong "family resemblance". I think it would sell well. Certainly better than a new millenium Aermacchi lay-down single.
HapHazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 06:13 PM   #79
Dukeryder
 
Dukeryder's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pinewood Springs, Co
Oddometer: 7,460
Holy Shit, H-D must be the biggest group of morons in the Motorcycling world. They already had a full line of good real world lightweight bikes.

The only problem with the bikes is that they weren't H-D enough for the old guys and didn't have the HP like the Japanese bikes so they never caught on. But I think they could've marketed them better and had more success.
__________________


Dukeryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 07:59 PM   #80
nsu max
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Oddometer: 395
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You got it!
nsu max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 08:06 PM   #81
ian03xl
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ian03xl's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: northwest Iowa
Oddometer: 160
Who was responsible for the marketing of buell? Was it buell or Harley? I don't recall ever seeing any advertisement for buell except for maybe in a magazine a couple of times. I believe that more people would have tried them they would have been very successful I know after I rode 1 I was hooked.
__________________
A wise man once told me: When arguing with a stupid person, people that are watching you cannot tell which one is the stupid one.
http://jeffersonchopshop.blogspot.com/
ian03xl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 08:47 PM   #82
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheGravy View Post
I haven't read every post in this thread, so someone may have already suggested it, but I think HD should buy Moto Guzzi. Think about it. It's a brand with heritage and style that the HD crowd could probably learn to love, the bikes have character, and it gives MG an instant dealer presence in the US.


I would be happy about this happening.

Not sure why nsu max is so pessimistic.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 06:45 AM   #83
IRideASlowBike
Beastly Adventurer
 
IRideASlowBike's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: SE PA
Oddometer: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukeryder View Post
Holy Shit, H-D must be the biggest group of morons in the Motorcycling world. They already had a full line of good real world lightweight bikes.

The only problem with the bikes is that they weren't H-D enough for the old guys and didn't have the HP like the Japanese bikes so they never caught on. But I think they could've marketed them better and had more success.


Too bad Buells were all butt-ugly.
IRideASlowBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 07:09 AM   #84
scrannel
Scrannel
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Malibu, CA
Oddometer: 1,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by squish View Post
The deal is HD doesn't need an entry level bike,
HD is a destination brand.
That's what they used to say about Oldsmobile.
scrannel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 05:58 PM   #85
nsu max
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Oddometer: 395
First let me say I truly like Harleys Sportsters, Ultra Tour Electra Glides and so on I like them all. All bs aside, I'm not trying to be a pessimist. Harley just can't seem to get a handle on sub 900cc market. I really wish they could get in that market, and it pisses me off when somebody says my Guzzi is an Italian Harley.
nsu max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 07:25 PM   #86
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by squish View Post
The deal is HD doesn't need an entry level bike,
HD is a destination brand, it's the brand that people want to own. So why should the make a starter bike.
They cost nearly as much as a big bike yet bring less profits.
They are hard to market
If you design them right the market's shun them for being weird or ugly (See Buell)

Pluss plenty of folks start riding on a sportster anyway, so that works just fine for them as an entrylevel bike.

It's interesting that the OP posted a pick of the Sprint, which was built in the same factory that HD bought and then PAID to have someone take it off their hands when the bought the whole MVAgusta debacle.
^ Yep.

As said before, the other brands that have the poorer clientele begging to buy their cheaper bikes can't give an entry level standard away.
The bikes like the Ninja 250 have a margin of about $300. That's not even worth bringing it in to setup and going through tying up an employee for a couple of hours to do the paperwork, not to mention the tool that doesn't understand margin and just wants you to "throw in a helmet and jacket with the deal".

Cheap bikes are losers for the dealers and the manufacturers.

When bikes like Harley currently makes get on the used market, you seldom see one treated like a cardboard box. They get polished and worshiped.
If HD makes an entry level machine, it'd have to be the HD of entry level bikes. And, they already have the Sportster.

Would you finance a modern Aermacchi experiment with your $$? I wouldn't.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 07:52 PM   #87
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven View Post
Cheap bikes are losers for the dealers and the manufacturers.
Not if the "loss leader" product gains the company a loyal customer for years to come.

__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt
rocker59 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 08:23 PM   #88
chazbird
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Oddometer: 3,333
To to bash per se, but I'm still digesting this (paraphrased) quote from a Harley engineering spokesperson around 1989-92 or whenever the EVO engine came out: "We're really pleased, this is the first engine where we really know where the oils going." (ie that everything is getting the proper lubrication). Something tells me Honda knew damn well where the oil was going on their 50cc Cub engine in 1958.
chazbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 08:54 PM   #89
kirb
should be out riding
 
kirb's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Musky, MI
Oddometer: 1,648
The thing about Buell is you CAN have a lightweight, good performance, FUN motorcycle with the sporty engine. You can look back at the cyclone for more classic styling and performance that was better than the current XR1200. It is possible if you don't keep designing bikes to look like it's 1950.

Buell then had their hands tied when it came to the 1125, but that thing is DAMN fast. Had Buell had his way, the first round would have looked the the B2 (the next gen 1125) that was trashed. Full faring, no pods, and much like the bikes it was designed to beat.

MV was a good idea to attempt to get a more broad based bike line, but they bailed to keep stockholders happy and sold the company back for $4. They couldn't have been thinking volume with MV, so they had SOMETHING in mind when they bought them. BRP offered to buy the liquid Buells as they made the 1125 motor, but HD wanted to tank the brand. Nothing like a quarter billion down the tubes with nothing to show for it.

Maybe it's time for dealers outside of the HD showrooms like MV, Aprillia, MG, etc. Small dealers that know the product will sell more than an HD dealer selling chrome.
__________________
A Ducati, some Guzzi, a KTM, and a Excelsior...Indian in resto.
kirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2011, 05:58 AM   #90
Uglyprimate
UglyPirate
 
Uglyprimate's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Fort Whine Indiana
Oddometer: 6,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Not if the "loss leader" product gains the company a loyal customer for years to come.

Hasn't seem to work for Honda with the Rebel, and it certainly hasn't worked for Kawasaki with it's Ninja 250.

The only thing Harley needs to do for entry level sales is be willing to give a decent trade in value on the metric pygmys.
__________________
"Beauty sleep?" Bitch, you don't need a nap, you need to HIBERNATE!
Uglyprimate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014