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Old 12-20-2011, 08:20 AM   #91
scrannel
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Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
Hasn't seem to work for Honda with the Rebel, and it certainly hasn't worked for Kawasaki with it's Ninja 250.

The only thing Harley needs to do for entry level sales is be willing to give a decent trade in value on the metric pygmys.
I don't think this comparison makes a lot of sense. A really nicely made 750 V-Twin is what they need. Something that doesn't look like what they already have... but at the same time has power and character. And the notion that everyone who has a Japanese or Euro motorcycle is desperately looking for a way to get on a HD is, well to be polite, out of touch with reality.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:08 PM   #92
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I definitely think a business case could be made for a Harley Sprint 500 based on the Buell Blast (assuming they still have rights to it). It will be useful for all the dealers who need a bike for MSF classes and would probably sell well in other markets as well. The development costs should be low. Right now they're talking about bringing in rebadged Hyosungs for this, so the demand is there (per Motorcyclist magazine). I also think there's room for a cool cafe style 750 based on the liquid cooled VROD technology.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:12 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
Hasn't seem to work for Honda with the Rebel, and it certainly hasn't worked for Kawasaki with it's Ninja 250.

Think about how long those models have been in the lineup, then get back with me.

The Ninja 250, in particular, has been a very successful motorcycle over the past, what?, 25-years...
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:17 PM   #94
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Have any of you guys suggesting a Blast based bike ever ridden a Blast? It would seem like a bad move to me and I have ridden a few.

I'm not sure what they should do, if anything. The Blasts I have ridden had twice the shake & half the poop of a Sporty. I would gladly pay the extra for the rest of the motor, unless a Blast derived bike was crazy cheep.

The mini V-Rod could be cool but working around the made in India thing would be tuff. It's too bad they didn't embrace some of the Buell stuff more.

I've been hoping for a V-Rod based sport touring bike since the V-Rod came out.

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Old 12-21-2011, 03:38 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Think about how long those models have been in the lineup, then get back with me.

The Ninja 250, in particular, has been a very successful motorcycle over the past, what?, 25-years...
The argument wasn't if they were successfull sellers.

The argument was if it promoted brand loyalty.

Every Rebel rider I know is now on either a Harley or a Star Yamaha.

Every small engined Harley ever built has a short life and slow sales.

How long has the 883 Sportster been around?

Since 1957

And the Sportster range is still their biggest seller.

Harley has something like a 97 percent retention for second time purchasers.

I just don't see any market need for Harley to have a smaller bike.

Yes, they could make them lighter, but for what reason? Other than the computer geeks here, do you really think the average bike buyer has a clue what their bike weighs?
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:50 AM   #96
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I swear I read in a moto mag in the last couple months that Harley was teaming with ATK to produce a smaller cc "starter" bike. Is this what is being discussed?
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:14 AM   #97
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I swear I read in a moto mag in the last couple months that Harley was teaming with ATK to produce a smaller cc "starter" bike. Is this what is being discussed?
For those who think HD is in great shape selling only their whoopers with all the trimmings... and some info on ATK.


http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/321/82...Davidson-.aspx
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:39 AM   #98
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At the end of the artical; "according to U.S. R.L. Polk registrations, Harley-Davidson took over as the top-selling brand in the U.S. in sales of new street motorcycles (all cc engines) to young adults 18-34 in 2008. And in 2009, we extended that lead over the next nearest competitor.

Harley isn't doing as good as the boom days but there is no evidence anyone is gonna sell more bikes than them in the near future. In a poor economy leisure product sales decline, especially luxury ones like harleys. As our economy continues to level out with third world countrys scooter sales may pick up but harley will still be the destination brand.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:14 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by 0ldhippie View Post
At the end of the artical; "according to U.S. R.L. Polk registrations, Harley-Davidson took over as the top-selling brand in the U.S. in sales of new street motorcycles (all cc engines) to young adults 18-34 in 2008. And in 2009, we extended that lead over the next nearest competitor.

Harley isn't doing as good as the boom days but there is no evidence anyone is gonna sell more bikes than them in the near future. In a poor economy leisure product sales decline, especially luxury ones like harleys. As our economy continues to level out with third world countrys scooter sales may pick up but harley will still be the destination brand.

This bears repeating for all those that keep predicting the demise of HD, that they don't sell the kind of bikes "I" want, that they need an entry level bike, that only old farts buy HDs and no one under 40 is interested in their pathetic "lifestyle" marketing.

I find it funny how many guys bitch and complain about what HD doesn't do and how they would buy a HD if they would only make a specific style of bike and and I wonder why.

Do they secretly want to own and ride an HD too and are miffed because the MoCo doesn't offer them a bike they want?

Wonder how many pick-up drivers bitch because Porsche doesn't build a 4x4 truck?
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:41 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
This bears repeating for all those that keep predicting the demise of HD, that they don't sell the kind of bikes "I" want, that they need an entry level bike, that only old farts buy HDs and no one under 40 is interested in their pathetic "lifestyle" marketing.

I find it funny how many guys bitch and complain about what HD doesn't do and how they would buy a HD if they would only make a specific style of bike and and I wonder why.

Do they secretly want to own and ride an HD too and are miffed because the MoCo doesn't offer them a bike they want?

Wonder how many pick-up drivers bitch because Porsche doesn't build a 4x4 truck?
Me for 1. Every time I take my old Ford 4X4 out, I say I wished Porsche would build a 4X4 truck. You could even ask my dog if you don't believe it. Of course she'll be any one's friend for a biscuit, even Porsche wishing for Neanderthals like me so take what she tells you with a grain of salt even if you read about it on the Internet.

But what I really want to know is how many small plane pilots wished Honda made aircraft, oh wait................

You guys guess too much and worry even more, wish in one hand and shit in the other, you'll know what's real in a hurry. Now I have more drunk reading and posting to do here, carry on as I love me some Winter time threads like these...............

Cheers and Merry Christmas
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:58 AM   #101
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Not predicting HD's demise, but the claim of being number 1 cruiser isn't enough, and it's not me saying that but HD. That's why THEY are thinking of a "different" bike. It's not that they're losing "market share", but that the market is generally shrinking. The low dollar has helped them a lot overseas. Maybe the "new generation" will just love to have a standard HD, but that brand loyalty thing is slipping away as the generation changes.

It's funny how HD faithfuls are like members of a political party where they can only see their side is doing the right thing and change... is bad. No matter how necessary and inevitable.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:15 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by scrannel View Post
Not predicting HD's demise, but the claim of being number 1 cruiser isn't enough, and it's not me saying that but HD. That's why THEY are thinking of a "different" bike. It's not that they're losing "market share", but that the market is generally shrinking. The low dollar has helped them a lot overseas. Maybe the "new generation" will just love to have a standard HD, but that brand loyalty thing is slipping away as the generation changes.

It's funny how HD faithfuls are like members of a political party where they can only see their side is doing the right thing and change... is bad. No matter how necessary and inevitable.
Don't know if you speaking about me or not but I'll respond.

I think change is great and hope they do change a little but I'm not clammoring for them to make a small entry level standard bike or a DS just like I'm not asking BMW to make a cruiser.

Last statistics I saw reported that HD has a 97% brand loyality. Are we kool-aid drinkers? Hell yes, those of us that buy and ride HDs really like them. Regardless of how any individual feels, HD is envy of most all other makes when it comes to loyality....thus the extent of the brand merchandising. And don't think other brands don't engage in product mechandising, they almost all do but their stuff doesn't sell as well as HDs.

The evidence suggests with their current offerings they are doing better with younger buyers than they have in the past, so why the need to introduce a lighter cheaper Harley? Sure in Asian or Indian markets a small bike would be desirable but the majority of bike buyers in the US don't want a smaller, lighter HD. Those markets are filled by Asian and European makes and the numbers sold in the US don't justify engineering, building and selling smaller bikes here.

I hope HD imports some of their Indian produced cycles here and I'll patiently wait for those of you claiming you want a lighter, cheaper HD to step up to the plate, make your purchase and post your experiences.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:28 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by scrannel View Post
For those who think HD is in great shape selling only their whoopers with all the trimmings... and some info on ATK.


http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/321/82...Davidson-.aspx
ATKmacchi?
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:14 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
The argument wasn't if they were successfull sellers.

The argument was if it promoted brand loyalty.

Every Rebel rider I know is now on either a Harley or a Star Yamaha.

Harley has something like a 97 percent retention for second time purchasers.
What if the Rebel was a Harley?
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:06 PM   #105
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The evidence suggests with their current offerings they are doing better with younger buyers than they have in the past,
What evidence? And I don't want them to re-brand an import, I want them to make a new bike themselves. And I don't mean a 250 or something. But, that "image" of a 750 based on the Porsche V-rod motor looks great, make that and I'm in. And BTW, BMW does make a cruiser. It has six cylinders. Look, I love HD, have owned five. I have 100% zero interest in brand loyalty, however. Their current fare bores me.
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