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Old 12-20-2011, 02:54 PM   #46
John Smallberries
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Slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
On dirt roads, I love to pass the guys who ride standing. Specially the ones who, the night before around the campfire, were bragging about their standing up skills and the lower C of G, weight transfers, and all the theoretical stuff they learned on the Jimmy Lewis or Raw Hide riding classes. And I can even remove one hand from the handle bars to wave them good bye as I pass them.

And if you still claim you can go faster than me on dirt, think about this:
If you are faster then me, I'm sitting, you standing, imagine that I could stand up and be faster than you. If I ride faster than you, and I don't stand up, you will have no excuse and will certainly be quiet around the campfire next time this conversation comes up.

And yes, I met some fast rides who stand. But they are simply fantastic riders who are fast no matter what.

Of course I stand up, when the road gets really bumpy, or going through obstacles, like a few have mentioned earlier here.

But the bottom line is: ride the way you are the most comfortable and have the most fun. Which could be standing or not.

Lion
I can tell you that the RawHyde basic training was not about riding faster while standing than sitting. That never entered into the discussion. It isn't much relevant for me as I'm a slow guy by nature! I'll wave as you pass me.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:56 PM   #47
Lion BR
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Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
Standing on the pegs in certain conditions is beneficial;
- per my diagram, when climbing a hill, the force of action of my weight is ahead of the rear tire patch, making my GS less likely to tip over backward.
Makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
- when riding in sand, it allows me to steer by shifting my weight when the front wheel is flopping around nearly useless
I don't know about that. On sand I like to keep the front as light as possible. Sitting helps with that. As a matter of fact, I like to keep the front as light as possible when riding on the dirt and gravel (contrary to many opinions on that matter). Especially on corners, by sitting and accelerating, keeping the weight more squarely on the back wheel and using the back wheel to assist with steering.

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- when going over "whoops", it lets the bike pitch beneath me without flinging me off the seat
Makes sense to me.


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- on the highway takes the weight off my ass from time to time. The bike doesn't care, but my ass does.
- ...I'm sure there are many more examples
Helps with farting and arranging the jewels.

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So - thanks to those who helped me get my head straightened out. I am trainable.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
I can tell you that the RawHyde basic training was not about riding faster while standing than sitting. That never entered into the discussion. It isn't much relevant for me as I'm a slow guy by nature! I'll wave as you pass me.
Now we are talking. Trials bikes, for example, do not have a seat and the thing IS to ride slow. Good for you!

EDIT: I just brought up the speed thing because the campfire situation did happen to me. I was with a group of riders who decided to criticize my riding style. Up until that day I had been riding at their pace, and respecting their alternate leaders for each ride. But their preaching really annoyed me, especially when one of them kept insisting on it, claiming I was doing it wrong and did not understand the "physics" of riding. The next day I taught them the physics of eating my dust. They never brought "stand up" riding again. One of them does not invite me for rides anymore. The others love riding with me, despite my unfashionable riding style.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:18 PM   #49
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The best way to understand the dynamics of riding standing is to ride some trials events. They'll have a line for novices, and everyone was a noob once, so you'll get a lot of help from everybody. You can analyze it and argue about theory 'til you're blue in the face, but you'll never understand fully until you actually do it.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:23 PM   #50
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Mix it up and do what works for you and your bike. If riding on the road free of obstructions then standing is only for comfort, stretch, see the sights etc.. Nothing wrong with that unless the law sees you or you have to panic brake and haven't practiced this. Hard braking on the road while standing might see you going over the bars or at least lurching forward and loosing control. Off road as others have stated, ability to balance the bike, shift yourself around while the bike bucks and bounces may help you with your balance. Much of this will be based on your comfort and the bike you're on. I have a GSA and standing is very comfortable (with rox risers) and allows me to balance the bike, especially with my wife and a bunch of gear on the back. I found that on gravel if the bike starts to get loose I can counter it with throttle and it 'feels' more stable when I stand up and gas it.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:48 PM   #51
high dangler OP
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Ok I understand a little more than before i asked this question.Thanks for the replies ,Im going to keep at it in the parking lots for now . Not afraid to go straight down the hiway and stand ,Ive done that on all bikes .its my turning skills i need to work on.
No way to learn but keep practicing.I'll roll the bars up a bit and try more peg input.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #52
kpt4321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
If the equivalent of our weight were to be rigidly bolted to the bike, it would be different. Bolting my 200+ lbs. to the pegs would result in a lower center of gravity than if it was bolted to the seat. But, we aren't bolted on, so this is irrelevant.
Where the weight is connected is of little consequence (that is the point I am trying to make). What matters is where the CoG of the various bodies are, relative to one another. How you connect them is largely irrelevant.

Otherwise I think you're getting it.

And to the "I'm faster while sitting" guy: congrats, we're all very impressed. Look at youtube at any video of an a-class enduro rider. They stand. They're faster than you. End of story.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:21 PM   #53
Lion BR
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
And to the "I'm faster while sitting" guy: congrats, we're all very impressed. Look at youtube at any video of an a-class enduro rider. They stand. They're faster than you. End of story.
If you had read what I wrote, you would know I already mentioned what you just wrote. But thanks for saying it again.

But you give me a chance of saying it again:

If you think the way to ride fast on dirt is standing, and I ride faster than you while I'm sitting, shame on you.

But if you are faster than me, you standing and I'm sitting, you will never know how fast I really can be, if I stand up.

And yes, those fast guys spend time standing and time sitting. What I'm saying is that standing is not the ONLY way to ride well on dirt.

I also mentioned that those fast guys will be faster than you no matter how they ride (sitting or standing).
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:35 PM   #54
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:36 PM   #55
MikeyR
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I've seen all the arguments for and against lowering / raising the COG when standing, but I think that standing also helps by placing more weight over the front, thus allowing the main part of the bike to pivot better about the top of the forks, which improves the handling off-road.

I'm no expert, just my $0.20.

Mike
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:45 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
If you had read what I wrote, you would know I already mentioned what you just wrote. But thanks for saying it again.

But you give me a chance of saying it again:

If you think the way to ride fast on dirt is standing, and I ride faster than you while I'm sitting, shame on you.

But if you are faster than me, you standing and I'm sitting, you will never know how fast I really can be, if I stand up.

And yes, those fast guys spend time standing and time sitting. What I'm saying is that standing is not the ONLY way to ride well on dirt.

I also mentioned that those fast guys will be faster than you no matter how they ride (sitting or standing).
No, I saw it the first time. Here, let me paraphrase:

"I'm SO good at riding!!"

Presumably you have lots of A-class trophies to go with that ego?
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:55 PM   #57
Lion BR
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
No, I saw it the first time. Here, let me paraphrase:

"I'm SO good at riding!!"

Presumably you have lots of A-class trophies to go with that ego?
Man, you are missing the point. Again.
But yes, I'm a good rider. Not a racer and far from it. I actually entered an enduro race once. Finished 30. Not even close to winning anything.
And I have lots of fun riding without having to ride like someone claims is the right way of riding.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:12 AM   #58
Lion BR
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Now, if you want to ride really fast, on terrain with lots of bumps and woops, yes you will have get your ass off your seat. Check this:



Looking from the front, he seems like he is not standing up at all. He is not. He is crouching and using his knees to help with absorbing impacts.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:38 AM   #59
LittleRedToyota
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Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Looking from the front, he seems like he is not standing up at all. He is not. He is crouching and using his knees to help with absorbing impacts.
yep (he is standing). many really good dirt riders/racers don't actually sit down much. they often appear to be sitting, but really their butts are hovering just over the seat.

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Old 12-21-2011, 10:54 AM   #60
dillon
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Its all about making it easier to change position thus making the bike perform better (weighting the rear for better traction weighting the front for better steering/breaking (this is more important on bikes with a wider front tire, super motos and other street biased dual sport machines), also keeping wheels on the ground wile climbing and descending hills). It also helps with rough terrain, when you bend your knees as you cross bumps it takes some stress off of the bike.
In town I will stand on the pegs in traffic so I can see what the hold up is and change lanes if needed, it also makes you more visible, and in this case the cops dont seem to mind you doing it here. I think some of em can see the safety benefit there. And lastly, when you pull up to a stop sign its fun to balance on the pegs wile stopped and try to not have to put a foot down
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