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Old 12-19-2011, 10:03 PM   #76
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoratioLegrande View Post
What is wrong with expecting a $15,000 motorcycle to be designed in such a way so that the instrument panel isn't confusing?
Not a thing. That is why it isn't.
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DAKEZ screwed with this post 12-19-2011 at 10:11 PM
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:06 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by HoratioLegrande View Post
I am not confused by a HD instrument panel, but apparently some people are.
No. A couple of idiots crashed and tried to think up a way to get some free money by posing as even bigger idiots than they truly are. They lost. All is right with the World.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:08 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
No. A couple of idiots crashed and tried to think up a way to get some free money by posing as even bigger idiots than they truly are. They lost. All is right with the World.
Amen
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:16 PM   #79
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Some used motorcycles do t come with an owners manual. I don't know if the ABS indicator is confusing or not. I do know that some designers are stupid. I think some engineers will ignore the obvious solution and do the stupid just to be different. I have a radio in my truck and the obvious button to turn it on doesn't turn it on, some little button off to the side does. I have to look for the right button. Some people who design things are morons.

An owners manual that explains something is no no excuse for poor design. For $15,000 a motorcycle instrument panel should be un ambiguous. Like I said I don't know if the HD one is or isn't.


Quote:
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The owners manual is your friend:

“On ABS equipped models, the amber ABS indicator lamp begins to flash at key ON to indicate that the system is operational. It continues to flash until motorcycle speed exceeds 3 mph (5 k km/h). Continuous illumination of the lamp will only occur when ABS detects that the system is malfunctioning. In diagnostic mode, the lamp will also illuminate to indicate the presence of diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). See a Harley-Davidson dealer for service.”

No ABS no flashing lights
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:21 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoratioLegrande View Post
Some used motorcycles do t come with an owners manual. I don't know if the ABS indicator is confusing or not. I do know that some designers are stupid. I think some engineers will ignore the obvious solution and do the stupid just to be different. I have a radio in my truck and the obvious button to turn it on doesn't turn it on, some little button off to the side does. I have to look for the right button. Some people who design things are morons.

An owners manual that explains something is no no excuse for poor design. For $15,000 a motorcycle instrument panel should be un ambiguous. Like I said I don't know if the HD one is or isn't.
You don't know but your still writing about a 15,000 motorcycle, you should see some of the Formula One type instrument panels on some bikes, mutiple screens etc... Never mind I can't argue with...
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD10563 View Post
You don't know but your still writing about a 15,000 motorcycle, you should see some of the Formula One type instrument panels on some bikes, mutiple screens etc... Never mind I can't argue with...
Chill out there hoss no one is arguing with you. The guy just said an expensive bike should have a well designed instrument panel and tried to clarify that he wasn't insinuating that the HD design was a bad one because he simply didn't know. The courts decided the HD design was good enough but that doesn't make the statement invalid (just kind of irrelevant for this particular case).

If you want to defend HD's honor you probably want to save your energy for when someone is actually talking about the brand. I'm sure you won't have to wait long before someone gives you something to stay busy but if you like picking fights there is a very nice subforum called JoMamma where they absolutely love to play that game...

As for the original topic, I'm glad this one ended up the way it did. I can't fathom a person buying a motorcycle and not knowing what they bought. I suppose you could get away with it in a car but on a bike it's a bit more important to understand how the thing works if you want to stay alive.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:00 AM   #82
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The judge ruled correctly, and common sense prevails.

I don't have ABS on my Dakar. There is an ABS logo there in the dash though. It does NOT light up, which means that it is NOT there. It only proves that I have a non-ABS version of a bike that had ABS as an option.

This is of course how it works. BMW (or Harley) wouldn't make TWO dashboards. But I wanted to get the opinion of a relative outsider...a person who couldn't give a crap about vehicles. Cue "the wife". She is a great driver but knows nearly nothing about cars, and couldn't care less. She makes me do all the work, and she handles other tasks. I handle all the little maintenance things. Our X3 is hers and I simply remind her about scheduling services. This works for us.

So I asked her, "I am curious to know your answer...how do you know that our car has ABS?" "Trick question?", she asked. "No trick, just curious to see how you know."

She thought for a second, and replied "Aside from our owners manual, isn't it proven every time I start it, because the ABS light actually flashes when you put the key in and then turns off, while if we didn't have it, it would stay dark? And also, if it stays on, I should contact service?" Good woman! I wanted to be sure that this "knowledge" didn't exist in my head just on the basis that I love cars and bikes, and I can say that if my wife knows it, the most non-car savvy person on earth should know it.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:23 AM   #83
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I have a ST1100 and it came with an instrument cluster appropriate to the version.

The standard version - ST1100 - had this dash.


The ABS TCS version - ST1100A - had this dash.


The bike also had clear labels whether it has ABS or not.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:36 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandThumper View Post
This is of course how it works. BMW (or Harley) wouldn't make TWO dashboards.

This is not necessarily true. 80s and 90s K bikes had different instrument clusters for ABS and non-ABS bikes.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:22 AM   #85
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Harley Wins

Woman hurt in 2009 crash loses suit in Sacramento against Harley-Davidson #scsharelink { background: url(http://media.sacbee.com/static/sacco...share-icon.png) no-repeat left center; padding-left: 20px; } Share By Andy Furillo afurillo@sacbee.com By Andy Furillo The Sacramento Bee Last modified: 2011-12-19T21:31:26Z Published: Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 - 1:27 pm Copyright 2011 The Sacramento Bee. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. A Sacramento Superior Court jury today exonerated Harley-Davidson in a lawsuit filed by a woman who suffered severe brain damage in a 2009 wreck on Highway 99.Plaintiff Judy Wilson had charged in her suit that the motorcycle her husband crashed while she was riding on the back had a defective design because of an icon on its tachometer that made him think the bike had anti-lock brakes when it didn't.Wilson also charged that a salesman for Harley-Davidson of Sacramento told her the motorcycle had an anti-locking braking system. The company argued that the design was not defective and that it's been selling motorcycle with the "ABS" icon for years without incident. The dealership denied that its salesman ever told Wilson the bike had the anti-lock braking system.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13243981133473
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:31 AM   #86
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Wife gets thrown out of the saddle for 35ft....they should sue Harley for not fitting a seatbelt.
Or the wife should sue her husband for being an arsehole, but he probably wasn't good for 2.6 million
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:52 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerx2 View Post
Chill out there hoss no one is arguing with you. The guy just said an expensive bike should have a well designed instrument panel and tried to clarify that he wasn't insinuating that the HD design was a bad one because he simply didn't know. The courts decided the HD design was good enough but that doesn't make the statement invalid (just kind of irrelevant for this particular case).

If you want to defend HD's honor you probably want to save your energy for when someone is actually talking about the brand. I'm sure you won't have to wait long before someone gives you something to stay busy but if you like picking fights there is a very nice subforum called JoMamma where they absolutely love to play that game...

As for the original topic, I'm glad this one ended up the way it did. I can't fathom a person buying a motorcycle and not knowing what they bought. I suppose you could get away with it in a car but on a bike it's a bit more important to understand how the thing works if you want to stay alive.
Nothing do with HD Honor, I just ride an HD have owned other brands too and thier all just motorcycles. Motorcycles, Cars, Cameras, Computers, GPS all have different desgins and it's my job as the owner to become familar with it. We live in a world that seems to place the blame on every thing else except for the individual who is doing the action. We have people following a GPS to nowhere instead of using thier common sense, a guy slams on his rear brake and then can't understand why he crashed, all they know is it couldn't be their fault. Having ABS is a nice option but if I brake hard and I feel my bike is going out from under me I'm not going to let my ABS make the decision for me, I'm going to let 35 years of riding make that decision, I'm going dig deep and try to remember what I did when I practiced and none of it is going to come from a shiny leather vest that some riders think is more important than training (a HD thing). I also understand that the coffee is hot when it is served, I don't need a warning label; I must be Old School.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:26 AM   #88
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:33 AM   #89
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I just don't know how we survived "back in the day" when you sometimes bought a brand new dirt bike that had no lights, gauges, or indicators of any kind and no manual either.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:50 AM   #90
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OK then.

done deal, and yee haw. i perused the thread (but didn't read every word) to see if anyone talks about the fact that,
if you are paying attention, you NORMALLY would not have to slam on the brakes.
so (yeah i KNOW it's been said) i call pilot error.
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