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Old 05-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #1066
Baja Dad
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Road book was good!
Needed more tulips(land marks)
No street names!!
I love to do more and get my
son involved.
This is the future of long Offroad racing
It was great meeting all the ADV guys
Hope we can do this all again next year!!!
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #1067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
Road book was good!
Needed more tulips(land marks)
No street names!!
I love to do more and get my
son involved.
This is the future of long Offroad racing
It was great meeting all the ADV guys
Hope we can do this all again next year!!!
good post
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:41 PM   #1068
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Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
Funny thing is dehydration was the one thing I managed to stay ahead of during the race. That was a big concern in the heat with all my gear on. Now, nutrition on the other hand I wasn't so good on. During the 4 days I think I ate about 5 cliff bars and 8 tacos total. But, I drank my full 3L hydration pack every day plus water in the morning and a cold bottle of watter at each pit.

Was getting a little sluggish by day 4, especially after I low sided on a slick off-camber downhill turn.

I saw those tracks and wondered who they belonged to.

-John
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:05 PM   #1069
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Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
I'm interested in hearing how you set this one up. Did you run the course and take notes on mileage and turns, etc... or did you do it off of someone elses track and google earth?
For all my other roadbooks, I do most work on Google Earth, then prerun to find problems.

For the Mexican 1000 it was done differently. I'm not part of NORRA. Ken Cameron is NORRA's rally master. He and others determined most of where the course would go. He drove it in an SUV and took notes which he evolved into a roadbook. When I raced the event in 2010, they published the roadbook way ahead of time. When I saw it I found that it would not work for the bikes bacause it would not fit in a standard roadbook holder. So I offered to copy the information over into the standard rally format. I did that that last two years, including printing them as well.

This year the course and other things changed. Early on I had agreed to make all the roadbooks in the proper format for bikes and cars. In the stages that stayed the same, I pretty much duplicated what was in last years bike roadbooks. For the new sections, they provided GPS tracks to me, and nothing more. I put the tracks into Google Earth and used my standard process for making a roadbook, which is basically panning along the course and marking intersections and other places where a roadbook entry might be needed (such as a wash crossing or other hazard). Then I use Google Earth to measure the distance between each roadbook point, and write the text (left, right, cross wash, etc.). And I hand drew the tulips based on the Google Earth view. That all was put into an Excel spreadsheet which forms the final roadbook. Once I finished ALL the roadbooks, I sent them to Ken Cameron. He took them to Baja and preran the whole course, verifying the roadbooks were correct. He made a million markups and corrections on my roadbooks, which I later rolled into the final roadbooks. I sent them a PDF file for each final roadbook, which they sent to a printer for printing. Somewhere in there someone missed the concept that the car roadbooks should have a binding, but the bike roadbooks should not. The bike guys ended up having to rip the pages out of the binding before taping them together. And apparently the printer decided to use somewhat heavy paper, which made for a thick roadbook for the bikes. Despite a number of goof ups, it seems it all worked out ok. But I want to learn from the mistakes, and understand what problems the competitors experienced so we can improve for next year.

One other thing that happend was someone decided at the last minute that the original course that went straight through town in Todos Santos was too dangerous. Ken asked me to find a way around the town and change the roadbook to match that new course. I did that without ever having been there. When Ken preran that, he said the route I mapped out worked great, so they stuck with it.

What I described in a couple of paragraphs above, skipping many imprtant details, was probaly 80 to 100 hours of work on my part, plus all the time NORRA people put in to support the roadbook effort. There is nothing quick or easy about making a good long roadbook!

If you want to understand my normal roadbook making process, see post #61 here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=695886&page=5




Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
Road book was good!
Needed more tulips(land marks)
No street names!!
I love to do more and get my
son involved.
Thanks for that feedback!

I did include many street names (see start leaving Mexicali, finish in Cabo, and a handfull of other places), but definatley more street names could have been included. But it's a bit risky doing that using the messed up process we used for this event because what's shown for a street name on Google Earth or some map may not match what the actual street sign says. I did read a few street signs via Google Earth, but that's a pretty sketchy way to go! I'll try to do better next time!

If you want to get some rally practice and learn more, try these:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746910
http://jimmylewisoffroad.com/class/r...ng-with-jimmy/
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=695886
And watch for a possible new thing I'm working on, maybe in association with NORRA, tentatively called the Diabolical Rally. There won't be street names in that one, because it won't go on any streets. Actually, much of it won't even be on dirt roads or trails! When is the last time you picked a compass heading and rode 50 miles in a straight line across wide open desert and never saw a single road or trail? Diabolical ! ! !
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:22 PM   #1070
drc42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post

One other thing that happend was someone decided at the last minute that the original course that went straight through town in Todos Santos was too dangerous. Ken asked me to find a way around the town and change the roadbook to match that new course. I did that without ever having been there. When Ken preran that, he said the route I mapped out worked great, so they stuck with it.
I assume this is why Mag 7 set up pits someplace that wasn't even on the course. They were supposed to be near Todos Santos but we never saw them. Several of us are going to be asking for refunds, pretty inexcusable to not have the pits on the actual course, even if there was a change.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:27 PM   #1071
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Thanks for the reply.

I'm curious because I'm setting up a Roadbook for the guys in the Rockies section. Just a simple 100 mile +/- loop so guys who have never done one can try and see if they like it.

Here is what I'm working on: Rockies Roadbook


One more question: how do you get accurate distances off Google Earth if the road is windy and climbs and drops. Seems like GE will only give you as the crow flies?

Thanks,

Dan
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #1072
HogWild
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Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
..pretty inexcusable to not have the pits on the actual course, even if there was a change.
The change happend a couple weeks before the race (last minute for me since I had to get the roadbooks and GPS tracks done well ahead of time). I even posted, several times, that the course did not go through Todos Santos. Plus, the final course GPS tracks were posted on the NORRA site a week before the race. So I agree, if they did not put the pit on the race course, someone made a pretty big mistake!
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #1073
Yellow Pig
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Originally Posted by HogWild View Post

And watch for a possible new thing I'm working on, maybe in association with NORRA, tentatively called the Diabolical Rally.



Do Tell!
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:39 PM   #1074
HogWild
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Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
One more question: how do you get accurate distances off Google Earth if the road is windy and climbs and drops. Seems like GE will only give you as the crow flies?
Use the GE Ruler tool, and click along the road drawing in every curve in the road (lots of clicks). This takes a LONG time, but it gives very accurate results.

That tool only accounts for altitude changes if it's two points (no good in a long twisty road). But that error is usually very small. Sometimes I correct for it with a guess or simple calculation, but I usually leave it as is.

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Old 05-03-2012, 07:41 PM   #1075
Hayduke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
Thanks for the reply.

I'm curious because I'm setting up a Roadbook for the guys in the Rockies section. Just a simple 100 mile +/- loop so guys who have never done one can try and see if they like it.

Here is what I'm working on: Rockies Roadbook


One more question: how do you get accurate distances off Google Earth if the road is windy and climbs and drops. Seems like GE will only give you as the crow flies?

Thanks,

Dan
Dan, I've tried it using the Google Earth method; here in the mountains it doesn't work so well. Too much tree cover, and the distances seem more variable. I don't know if that is from missing some of the road in the trees, the large elevation changes or what. It seems to work great in desert terrain though.

Sorry for the hijack; I'm happy that NORRA is using roabooks, though!
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:09 PM   #1076
drc42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Use the GE Ruler tool, and click along the road drawing in every curve in the road (lots of clicks). This takes a LONG time, but it gives very accurate results.

That tool only accounts for altitude changes if it's two points (no good in a long twisty road). But that error is usually very small. Sometimes I correct for it with a guess or simple calculation, but I usually leave it as is.

I already told too much!
On day 4 there was the "goat path" road through the mountains with 10 miles between landmarks. The next landmark was a crossroad and my odo was off by just 0.01 miles when I hit it. I would say your method worked damn well there. Or did you use the gps tracks they gave you for some of the distance calculations?
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:33 PM   #1077
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Just got done writing up the first installment of my Mexican 1000 story. I tend to belong winded so I am breaking the story up into smaller bits and posting as I write.

You can read it all on my blog: http://dakardream.net/blog/?p=562
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #1078
HogWild
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Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Dan, I've tried it using the Google Earth method; here in the mountains it doesn't work so well. Too much tree cover
That's absolutely true. I've learned to hate thick tree cover. In the interest of rally, cut them ALL down!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
On day 4 there was the "goat path" road through the mountains with 10 miles between landmarks. The next landmark was a crossroad and my odo was off by just 0.01 miles when I hit it. I would say your method worked damn well there. Or did you use the gps tracks they gave you for some of the distance calculations?
I measured that first long leg to be 12.34mi using GE. When Ken preran it he measured it at 12.20mi per his GPS, so I was about 1% off on that one. The next leg, after that crossroad, was 9.21mi per my measurement and 9.35mi per the prerun GPS, again just over 1% off. Using GE isn't always that good, but it's generally "good enough".

When the prerun mileage didn't match the roadbook, I usually changed the roadbook to match the prerun measurement. But there were a few cases where the prerun was clearly off a bit since it gave a mileage that was less than the straight line distance. When I saw that, I used my GE measured mileage.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:54 AM   #1079
woodzrider
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Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
I think I have had only about 5 hours sleep average each night starting with a couple days before the race. Very hard to do this with no support. Going to come back with a crew next year, anybody interested?
I would LOVE to be a part of this in some way......Count me in tentatively! I have a little Baja experience, very little!

Side note -I refuse to go back down without a bike. Made that mistake once.......................

Robert
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:15 AM   #1080
Baja Dad
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Hogwild,
In mexico. do Not add street names ( there are No signs)
Need land marks;
Church,
Ranch
Broken down car
Windmill
Warter tower
Pig farm
Etc..
Those are the tulips that need to be used,
Like the Dakar book
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