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Old 12-31-2011, 04:48 PM   #31
web037
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Here is an interesting idea http://www.fxbikes.com/bikes/ 125cc, 125 lbs, 125 mpg. They are taking orders for a dual sport version, probably push it over 125 lbs though.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:57 PM   #32
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Yeah, I saw 'em at the Indy Dealernews Expo a few years back. Incredibly trick!! At that time they only offered high-end (around ten grand) versions with Ti frames. More affordable mass-produced "Volkswagon" versions were supposed to be on the way although I haven't seen them yet.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by brianwheelies View Post
This!


That bike handles horriblely, and worse suspension than my old Honda spree.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:26 AM   #34
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They are going to have problems with the engine mounted at that angle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by web037 View Post
Here is an interesting idea http://www.fxbikes.com/bikes/ 125cc, 125 lbs, 125 mpg. They are taking orders for a dual sport version, probably push it over 125 lbs though.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #35
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They are going to have problems with the engine mounted at that angle.
The street or DS versions will probably never make it into the US anyway.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:06 PM   #36
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They are going to have problems with the engine mounted at that angle.
Supposedly they have an oil pickup to handle the angle. The cam lobes still mostly depend on splash lubrication despite having a pressurized system and I share hugemoth's worry. Gravity is going to take the oil away from the head where it's needed.

The 30-40 lbs. extra weight of the motor probably doesn't do the downhill mountain bike components any good, either. I've never ridden one but I'm sure that downhill mountain bike riders tend to "unweigh" the bikes as they hit bumps and jumps but the motor would be dead weight.

It's still an interesting idea as is the similar "motoped" concept discussed in another thread. Wouldn't it be nice to have endless money to be able to buy and experiment with these bikes??? Po' boys like me will still have to end up wiring stuff together from junk in the back yard.

As hugemoth and Yamageek have proven (and hopefully my UAB project will as well) taking an old lightweight trail bike, bringing it back to life with a new Chinese motor and adding modern suspension components is probably the most affordable solution to having a lightweight off-roadable bike for folks who just want to ride through the woods rather than hammer it into submission. There are still a lot of old Honda step-throughs out there in barns and garages waiting to be brought back to life. The concept is still as viable as it was in the early '60's with the small Japanese trail bikes--only our desire to go faster and harder necessitated the need for long travel suspension and more power.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #37
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Adventure scooters were basically invented when ranchers/farmers started modifying the Honda Cub for off road. Knobby tires, lower gearing, stripped off fenders/leg shields. That evolved into a factory version the CT55 and then the CT90. It seems to me that you could find big wheel scooter of similar origin (Sym Symba), strip it down, add knobbies and you would be good to go..

I found this photo online. A stripped down Symba with Rukus headlights.

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Old 01-13-2012, 05:25 PM   #38
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Suzuki Burgman 650 - Going West

Just found this site and really enjoying reading all the adventures! I recently sold my Burgie but had a few years of fun with it - and toured the western half of the USA with it. I tried posting pics here, but the file size was too much for this site - and I am not sure how to re-size it to fit.
If you want to views pics of this trip, a packed to the gills B650, and read my RR, you can go to my blog:

http://thetouringexperience.blogspot...ooter-man.html

Even though I don't own the scooter anymore, I have many friends through scooter groups and still wouldn't mine owning one again!! I also give a scooter review on the B650 on the blog if you're interested.
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:21 AM   #39
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An adventure scooter got to have storeage for 1 rider on a long trip. In my view you should be able to have a little sidecar for stuff. Even be able to haul a 1 wheel trailer. Should keep the rain off , there in all my posts about roofed scooters. You ve got to be able to go for a full day of riding without going F*()k this is going to hurt. You should be able to not worry about engine break downs , No china stuff there in. You should be able to ride for 200 miles plus without gas another reason I want a gas tank ad on.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:06 PM   #40
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Wheel Size on Scooters

Assumptions: secondary and frontage roads or empty highways that riding a scooter wouldn't get you killed. Nearly all paved roads. Gas stations every 100 miles or less. Reliable engine and spare parts and sufficient knowledge to troubleshoot any that do happen. Minimalist packing and use of motel rooms for most of the trip. Bedrolls and tents are well and good, but they're bulky and sometimes heavy and scooter touring is MINIMALIST. Like bicycle touring. 125cc 4-stroke engine is sufficient to climb any hill or pass, though not quickly. Beats the 50cc rolling to a stop on a hill. Good lights and electrical with support for music and GPS, both waterproof or easily stowed. 3 inches of suspension travel to deal with bumps or unseen potholes. This rules out the Vespa and many of the vintage looking scooters. You also need at least 12 inch wheels and bigger would be safer on western roads. If you are going offroad, as a true adventure bike, aren't you going to need knobbies and a gear shift so you can engine brake down a hill? I am unaware of a scooter that lets you do both, since those with manual transmissions have small wheels that won't work on the offroad conditions, and those with automatics but manual lockouts are too heavy for offroad (Burgman, Silverwing).

This leaves you with the the following models: Yamaha Zuma 125, the Kymco People 150, the Aprilia Scarabeo 200, the Aprilia Sport City 125, the Piaggio Fly, the Piaggio Typhoon, the Honda PCX (if you can get one), the Honda SH150i (about $2K overpriced), or the bigger scoots like the Burgman, which is more like a proper motorcycle with an automatic gearbox especially by price and weight. The above models are used on dirt and gravel roads all over SE Asia, the Phillippines, and lots of China and Japan (much of Japan is largely empty and undeveloped since the population mostly wants to live in Tokyo).

Alternatively, there are threads of people using the Ninja 250 with knobbies to go all the way to the Arctic Circle through eastern Canada, or up the Al-Can Highway to Alaska which is mostly paved but is under road repair the first half the summer and thus turns to gravel far too many miles to call "pavement" exactly. If the MadAss had a bigger fuel tank, or a mod that put a couple more gallons over the main spar with a line to the main internal frame tank then that would be a dandy, as it offroads reasonably well and is quite light. Needs a bash plate and knobbies, but that's plausible. Some guy rode all the way down the PCH to the Andes on one.

The real limiting factor of scooter-adventuring is you have to be very careful about road surfaces. There's good reason that offroad dual sport bikes have 19-21" front wheels. The physics favors it. 10" wheels will shortly trip you up and offroad, solo, injury can be fatal. If you can Adventure on paved secondary roads, 10" wheels will be mostly okay. Western USA roads tend to be in various states of maintenance which is why I recommend bigger wheels and good long suspensions, 3+ inches minimum. If they made a scooter with a 6" suspension travel and 125-170ccs with a manual gear lockout so I can engine brake? I would buy it. If you happen to look at the scenery and hit a pothole you don't want to spill. If you go down a long grade you don't want the bike winding up uncontrollably and have your brakes overheat, warp, or fail.

I suppose it is a shame that Lifan doesn't put a lighter weight, more waterproof, version of its 10 HP diesel engine into one of its light weight dual sport bikes with one of the many kinds of CVT. That would give one lots of wheel travel, knobby tires of sufficient size, twist and go throttle, and the diesel fuel you find on every farm. Farmers would LOVE that. Beats walking and you don't have to feed it like a horse. Would also get you 100-120 mpg and climb any terrain. Not exactly a scooter, but would deal with the bumps and rocks better.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:47 PM   #41
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Here are some Ideas that I've thought about for modifying a Honda Reflex scooter. Rear tire change from the standard 130/70-12 scooter tire to a 145/80R12 car tire. I already use a 155/80R12 car tire on mine. The 145/80R12 is a teeny bit smaller than the 155/80R12 but there are no mods to the swingarm needed if the narrower 145/80R12 is used. Take off the Reflex rear shocks which have 4.7" travel and 15.625" center to center mounting points and exchange with rear shocks from a Honda FSC600 Silverwing scooter which has 4.5" travel but has 16.625" center to center mounting points. Reflex weighs about 375# and Silverwing scoot weighs 501#. It would be a bit stiffer ride than the standard Reflex shocks, but I bet you could try to beat them to death and they wouldn't complain.
I haven't got the 145/80R12 mounted to one of my spare rims yet. It is actually a snow tire so it has a deeper, blockier looking tread. I'm kind of anxious to try it out on my Reflex. Should be fun.

Up front, the Reflex forks have 3.9" of travel, but could have 4.7" of travel and use a 14" Silverwing front wheel and disc brake * IF * the steering stem of the Silverwing is compatible with Reflex steering head. (bearing swaps may have to happen as well.) Speed sensor on the Reflex is on the front via a cable whereas the Silverwing's speed sensor is at the rear. A successful swap of the forks would mean an absolute need for a differnt method to track speed and mileage. Different electronic devices are available and adaptable to differing tire/wheel sizes.

If the fork exchange won't work, then you could try swapping out the standard 110/90-13 scooter front tire with a 150/70-13 rear tire from a Silverwing as I have already done. (I did have to modify the front fender though.) The odometer will be off, but with the larger tire, an optimistic speedometer reading error common to the Reflex, will get somewhat of a correction. So A method to keep a more accurate accounting of distance traveled may be in order.

Don't know that much about the J-Costa variator, but a simple mod to the Reflex by taking some of the rollers out of the variator is something some already do to help reduce that "Lag" effect.

It would seem prudent to fab some sort of bash plate for the front part of the frame that would still allow cooling air to make its way back to the radiator. Some way to direct forced cooling air from the moving bike to the radiator is needed or overheating could occur. (the electric fan by itself might not be enough after a while)

The plastic bodywork is relatively delicate, being easy to scratch, crack, break and eventually rattle loose as screws into the plastic loose their grip from the rigors of less than friendly roads. As stated previously, getting forced air to the radiator is important. How that gets done is open to experimentation. Flat panels of heavy duty plastic or aluminum could be substituted for the delicate stuff. Side bags/boxes could fit closer to the frame with original plastic removed as well as mounting for racks/boxes on top at the rear. Big Ruckus like headlights could be made to fit and a windscreen and fairing of sorts would still be desireable too.

Well that's a start to Frankenstein a Reflex with Silverwing parts and come up with something of a "Flexwing"?
Some Reflex and Silverwing owners might begin to faint and hoarsely rasp "sacrilege" (sissy wimps), but I've already convinced a bunch of Reflex owners to go to the "Darkside" and put a car tire on the rear of their Reflex scooters. Many, many safe miles have been accumulated with this mod.

For me, the car tire works a lot better on gravel and sand and barely shows wear after almost 20,000 miles of use. (a rear scooter tire would already be toast after only 7000 miles and often less than that) And the big Silverwing rear tire now on the front, sticks like stink to the road, handles sand and gravel better than the previous wimpy tire and will likely last vastly longer as well. No problems with hydroplaning or shedding water nor with braking. Handles different than standard stock tires. Not vastly better or worse, just different, but easily adapted to.

Who knows what other havoc I am likely to unleash. (OK, you can pick up your jaws that have fallen to the floor now)
It's getting late and I'm feeling a little bleary eyed. Can't think of any more modifications off the top of my head right now other than the usual dose of flat black rattle can paint. Carry on ladies and gents.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:06 AM   #42
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I hear ya man. Unfortuantly, American Motorcyclists are a very little target for Japanese [specially Honda] manufactoreres at the moment, so you can only imagine scooters!

I think what you'd like is a new 2012 redesigned Automatic CT 250! Simple single cylinder, carbed, same old Honda horizontal style engine [with engine protection guard for adventuring] but with 250 cc and a CVT. But not too big, not a truly Interstate capable machine but Interstate ain't out of the question for shorter distances. But decent travel, good Dual Sport Tars, high mounted filter and tailpipe so going thru mod is doable. But its not too far from a scooter, but with that rugged CT look to it! WHAT a bike that would be! I mean the CT 90/110 is pretty much considered a scooter, right? Not a true scooter actually with geats+ no floorboard, but we accept them here for the most part.

BUT, as we all know, that will NEVER happen! The best we git is the CRF230L with so high a price I ain't afforded it!
I'm blessed with a job that allows me to think about this while I work and I've been burning a lot of gray matter on this subject. I like the concept of a modern CT as btcn proposed. A 250cc motor will give it the power it needs and a horizontal engine design will as YamaGeek pointed out give it a low C. G. even if it's going to end up a bit porky for my tastes. If the weight was kept low you'd never notice it and a Ducati-style trellis underbone design would give it both style and strength. Modern well-dampened suspension would complete the package. The trouble is it wouldn't be cheap--figure the same range as the Big Ruckus or more--and I'm not sure an air-cooled motor of this displacement could also meet the current EPA standards meaning it would probably have to be liquid cooled, adding weight and complexity.

So it's highly doubtful that even if Honda went to the trouble of designing and building such a machine it would be a sales success at the price it would likely sell for and the limited market it would appeal to. That is a real bummer. Maybe the Chinese could use this concept as a fresh design and appeal to this market, selling it at a price riders would be willing to pay. Don't hold your breath, though.


Back to a subject near and dear to hugmoth, YamaGeek and myself's heart--that of an ultralight, go-anywhere bike--I was reading an article in a Cycle World from 1964 about the then-new Hodaka Ace 90. The tester was generally very pleased with the performance of this bike (which cast the basic mold for millions of dual-purpose bikes to come) but one statement stuck in my mind--that the bike was "a trifle heavy at 155 pounds." Admittedly it had a double loop cradle frame but in their opinion it was a bit heavy for a two-stroke machine. To buy a two wheeled machine today in that weight range in an adult bike you'd be limited to something like a competition trials machine.

Where did the industry go wrong? Was our desire to go faster more important than keeping bikes light and simple? Obviously so as interest in bikes like the CT-90/110 waned until they were finally pulled from the U. S. market after 1986. I'm one of the guilty parties here as all I wanted back then was something Bigger/Faster than the last bike and ignored the CT on my way to look at the latest CR or XR. Now that I'm old, weak and have no desire to go fast anymore the little CT's sound pretty good. Thank goodness there are lots of old bikes sitting in barns waiting to be brought back to life like the CT's and Passports--and the excellent Chinese motors to do it at a reasonable cost.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:53 PM   #43
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i think something like the honda wave 125, which we don't get, would make a nice automatic back road bomber with some dot knobbies.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:54 AM   #44
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218 lbs. for the kicker model and 224 for the e-start version. Heavy!! In U. S. dollars they're cheap, though.

C'mon Honda, create something light and simple. Gotta have a dream, right???
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #45
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woodsrat, yup, your dreaming allright! for a road worthy scoot this is about as light as it gets considering a 125 PCX weighs 280lbs. your looking for off road only specs obviously. a small dirt bike with semi-auto trans, no clutch maybe!

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