US Street Motorcycle - lack of mid-displacement bikes and standards

[2tallnwide]

At the end of the day as long as folks keep buying the same old crap they build here it's all we'll have to choose from.

Boycott HD & Victory now!

[131unlimited]

Originally Posted by kraven

...People don't buy them. A lot of people gripe, but not many put their money down. Here in the states, we ride differently than other cultures. We don't have as many riders doing everything on their bike and needing a steady riding position. We're almost all posers pretending to be Rossi or some late 60's Hell's Angel or some Adventure/Rally rider.
.....

This +1

- each camp of riders bitches about the other camp - but basically that is the deal in the States- we are not living in some old, tiny mountain town in the Alps where it takes 9 million hair pin turns just to get into town.... Many of us in the states want to head out and take down a lot of miles. Some head for the dirt, some head for the twisties and some head out on the Slab... a 250 - to 500 cc bike is great for the dirt and ok to put around town and go carve some local corners but they suck for spending time on the slab and eating miles... As was said in another post " They simply will not sell here." So, quit your bitchin, build your own and STFU ! ;)

[Kbetts]

I think most bikes would find a market if federal regulations weren't such a road block. Just imagine a government that recognized the European specs as good enough for 50hp and under. You could be import at will what ever you wanted as long as the bike didn't exceed 50hp.

Thinking about it, there is no good reason for not allowing those bikes here except that it takes power away from the feds....ergo it will never happen.

[Motomochila]

Seems a good time to introduce into this conversation the "Tards" conversion set and the "Retro" rebuild market that's becoming a fad her in the US. I used to see a few Tards and retro's on the roads a few years back but lately I see more than the knee dragger's, so apparently the mid size 450-650 market is coming back after all. It is the consumer that drives the manufacturers to build new models. Take a look at the WR250 Tard/dual sport models. The 450 is on the way as soon as Yamaha can overcome the emissions issue.

Patience is all we need. Give it five more years and we in the US will have our mid size standards.

[Grainbelt]

Originally Posted by Motomochila

The 450 is on the way as soon as Yamaha can overcome the emissions issue.

Wishful thinking, or you have an actual source?

[jas67]

Originally Posted by TrashCan

The SV650 is a very standard bike.
The pegs are located so you can stand straight up, reminds me of my old dirt bikes.

I also have a PC800 that is comfortable but at 6-700 pounds, not the same.

I had the Vulcan 500, very good bike, not for my style of riding.

Yes, the SV650 is a very standard bike -- I like it. It is no longer offered here in the US.

Originally Posted by kraven

Oh, you looked at a picture. Okay.

You can see in a picture where the pegs and controls are, and on the model shadow mentioned, they aren't as far forward as some others, but not right beneath you. That still doesn't change the fact that it is a cruiser-styled Harley-wannabee, and definitely isn't the style that I would go after.

[IheartmyNx]

Originally Posted by jas67

I see your point about a 400-500 bike being nearly as expensive as a 600-750. However, the 600's available here are the higher-reving 60+ HP 600's, and the 750's 70+ HP and are usually 4-cylinders. A more relaxed 40-55 HP 600-750 twin (like that on my V7) would be less expensive to make, and make for a great street bike.

Also, I'd say a bigger frustration of mine is the lack of standards. Most street bikes are firmly in either the cruise or sport segment. I guess, maybe some of the "Adventure" touring models could be used as standards, and, the Honda NT700V (although it isn't a naked standard, the ergos are standard, and the HP reasonable) are probably as close to a "standard" as we'll get.

Another poster brings up fuel economy -- as with cars, that isn't as important to a lot of buyers in the US market, as other parts of the world, where the fuel tax is way higher, making fuel cost 2-4X what we pay.

I love my V7, but 50-52 MPG on the highway just isn't very impressive to me when our Jetta TDI Sportwagon, with it's huge cargo capacity and 5-passenger (including driver) capability gets 44-45 MPG highway (real-life experience, EPA rating is 42).

The TU250X guys are seeing high-70's to low 80's. I would think a nice modern version of the CB350 or CB450 could get mid-60's, and be just as fun to ride as my V7, and way more capable on the highway/freeway. I get upper 50's to 70 MPG with my 250cc scooter (Kymco PS250), it's fun to ride, handling-wise, but uninspiring from the acceleration standpoint compared to my V7).

You're over thinking this, Mate... And read DAKEZ post just under yours.

Economy 101... It's not; "Buy stagnate, Sell stagnate". It's buy low, sell high. And without profits, you get no "high".

(That's why vehicles continue to get cheaper to build and have less and less build quality, but their prices continue to climb. You still have to buy supplies. The supplier still has to make a profit. So where is the next logical place to cut costs to maximize profits? Cheap automated labor and increased product cost.)

No company would make a dollar if its stocks NEVER fluctuated. Because nobody would buy them

They would find a chapter 13 tho...


NO ONE will bring ANYTHING here that won't sell, because that's not how it works. It's broader than just "they won't bring it here"

And I know a lot of you distance buying with profits and might dismiss my whole argument, but that just aint so.

Put yourself in their position. Marketing is; what does the customer want? Even though they most often don't know themselves.

It's like SEARS and GMAC or Hyundai credit for all that matters. The goal here is NOT to sell you a car, but rather credit.

HondaKawasakiYamaha is the same way. They want to sell you what they know you'll buy.

[jrflanne]

I bought a used Vespa GT200 for the heck of it last year. I really liked riding it so I replaced the suspension, did a Mallosi big-bore/head motor work, and put an Akropovic pipe on it. Overall, I have something like $5.5k in the scooter. It goes like hell and I would never trade a 250-500cc motorcycle for it. It is an excellent city tool, only a motard would be better. If I have the need for speed, I have a Tuono for that.

[sagebrushocean]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

While I agree and am currently saving for one of these, ya gotta admit those dudes are TALL.

I'm 5'10" and am STILL having second thoughts because of the height of these bikes. A helluva lot of the World is under 5' 10".

I'm 5'9" (31" inseam) and have no trouble at all flat-footing a factory-spec-lowered DR650 with 17" wheels F/R. I use mine almost exclusively for commuting in the Seattle metro area, and it works like a champ. I wouldn't mind having a 650-1000cc naked standard, but they are 70-150 pounds heavier than my stripped-down DR650 (346 pounds with 5gal of fuel in the IMS tank), are mechanically more complicated (FI vs. carb, liquid vs. air/oil cooling, shim vs. screw/locknut valves, multiple vs. 1 cylinder, respond poorly to being dropped or knocked over vs. "adds character") and have low clearance (vs. easy curb-hopping on the DR). The naked standards do have considerably more power than my DR, and probably have longer engine life. But for my 180 miles per week of urban commuting, the DR with 17" road rubber is a keeper.

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by kraven

Just because it has a v-twin doesn't make it a cruiser.

The Shadow RS has less rake and trail than the other models in the Shadow line, has mids, and has an upright riding position. It's a standard. So is the Bonnie.

Originally Posted by kraven

Oh, you looked at a picture. Okay.

You seem to have an erroneous idea of what is a Standard and what is a Cruiser. Let me help and even give you a link so you can see the difference.

A Honda Shadow RS has mid controls. Mid Controls are feet forward. Thhat is why they are called "Mid" Feet Forward = CRUISER. Forward Control = Cruiser. Mid Control = the middle between a Standard and a feet forward... Still a Cruiser just one that offers a chair instead of a slouch on couch riding position.

I am not sure who this Bonnie Bitch is you are referring to but on the off chance that you bastardized the name of a legend and are referring to a Triumph Bonneville then YOU ARE WRONG!

A Bonneville has Standard Controls (NOT Mid) A Bonneville is a Standard (feet under you) NOT a Cruiser (feet in front)

Don't believe me see for yourself. http://cycle-ergo.com/

[Yossarian™]

Originally Posted by 2tallnwide

Boycott HD & Victory now!

I've never owned either.

Where do I pick up my club pin?

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by Kbetts

Thinking about it, there is no good reason for not allowing those bikes here except that it takes power away from the feds....ergo it will never happen.

THEY DON'T SELL. It is not that they are not allowed. It is that people don't buy them.

That above all is a very good reason for not bringing them here.

[Motomochila]

Originally Posted by Grainbelt

Wishful thinking, or you have an actual source?

Was told at the show Yamaha was still considering releasing the 450 in dual sport trim in 2013. Could be wrong...or wishful thinking, but I heard it from a Yamaha dealer. The basis for my post though is that, we the consumer drive the market. More and more retro rebuild websites are popping up all over the US. I am in the middle of building a Street Tracker from and old 650 Yamaha, a cafe racer from an RC5 two smoke 350, and a blvd cruiser from a Honda 650L. When I research these bikes, I find thousands of other owners doing the same. Won't be long before the manufacturers see what is going on and start building their versions. Cheap to build because they can easily rebadge current engine configurations to fit what ever market sells this year.

[Grainbelt]

Originally Posted by Yossarian™

I've never owned either.

Where do I pick up my club pin?

I'll hazard a guess that you have dig for it in Dakez' sand-filled mangina.

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by Grainbelt

I'll hazard a guess that you have dig for it in Dakez' sand-filled mangina.

Not sure how this could be a dig at me?

The pins for the ignorant club are found in the basement.

You should go there Grainbelt. If you think that I ever get bunched panties over the banter on these forums you could not be more wrong. This is my entertainment and I enjoy it.

I agree with 2tallnwide & Yossarian that if you don't like a companies product you should vote with your dollars and boycott them.