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Old 01-05-2012, 11:50 AM   #166
outlaws justice
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
OJ, can you please post some more pictures of people riding slowly in a parking lot on shitty bikes? I'm very impressed by this, and I can't get enough.
How about pictures of people on very good bikes going slowly on a race track, I have some if you would like that.

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Old 01-05-2012, 12:08 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
OJ, can you please post some more pictures of people riding slowly in a parking lot on shitty bikes? I'm very impressed by this, and I can't get enough.
Please enlighten me on what kinds of bikes are "shitty" So far I have had fun on every bike I have ridden but maybe if you enlighten me I'll know better next time.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:09 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
Nope, no affiliation with MSF and honestly I disagree with those who think everyone should take the courses. For some though they really are a good idea and there are others who should just stick to public transit.

Also I very much appreciate your stance, I just didn't pick up that you were trolling him specifically and not the principles of being able to control one's machine to the fullest even though in most circumstances it is inadvisable to do so.
Hey we get to disagree! I think everyone, well every new rider and re-entry rider should take an MSF course. In the modern world of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation the folks running the course are called Rider Coaches. Not teachers, not instructors but coaches and I believe there is good in this.

I believe that learning never stops but the way we learn changes over time. I've never been a good book guy, the fastest way I learn is from watching and listening to folks with more experience then practice it. I've also learned plenty from folks with little experience, out of the mouths of babes and all. From the BRC to Code, Penguin, track days and riding around with folks you respect one can always improve. I was lucky, after spending most of my motorcycling youth in a vacuum I met up with some great riders in my 30's and my enjoyment of riding increased exponentially.

Learning is a two way street and so much of it's success depends on the coach, teacher, mentor etc. I've seen good ones and bad ones. I've seen guys who have been licensed four years get certified as an MSF RC. They can run the class like a robot but they can't coach for shit. Often it's these "paper tigers" who are the most rigid as they have no experience to fall back on.

They're the ones who will tell you that regardless of what we see in the photo glasses don't impede a rider's ability to see when hanging off; or if you wear superman glasses that go from light to dark as fast as he can flick the bike you'll never notice you're wearing 'em. A good coach might recognize the comment as a valid point, then ask what possible things you could do to mitigate the issue. They might even suggest that if you're going to get serious about being on the track contacts might be better.

A good coach might realize that one frame posted on a forum often isn't enough to tell the whole story, or troll forums looking for places to insert pictures of his greatness.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:12 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
OJ, can you please post some more pictures of people riding slowly in a parking lot on shitty bikes? I'm very impressed by this, and I can't get enough.

Haters got to hate.

You know how it is :

Those that can -> do.
Those that can't-> troll.

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Old 01-05-2012, 12:31 PM   #170
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It would appear to me that you have little or no actual experience on twisty roads and most likely have never ridden Deals Gap.


I suppose if I'd been as aggressive as OJ at posting my "creds" on the innernet you'd know just how stupid your comment is.

I'll say this, my experience is a bit more than 5,000 miles a year on straight roads dragging a trailer to ride 500 miles a year around cones with my knee down.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post


I suppose if I'd been as aggressive as OJ at posting my "creds" on the innernet you'd know just how stupid your comment is.

I'll say this, my experience is a bit more than 5,000 miles a year on straight roads dragging a trailer to ride 500 miles a year around cones with my knee down.



I ride, And I ride a lot. Don't have time to have 5,000 posts on the internet.

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Old 01-05-2012, 12:43 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post


I ride, And I ride a lot. Don't have time to have 5,000 posts on the internet.
Ahh but you're getting there. One lousy retort at a time

:edit If that's your garage that has to be the most unimaginative collection of bikes I've ever seen.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #173
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Hey we get to disagree! I think everyone, well every new rider and re-entry rider should take an MSF course.
I believe it's a good thing for new or returning riders to take a beginning or returning rider course; it'd be nice if more states were open to have options on who provided the materials or to make local (state program approved) adjustments as deemed important to the state. Ahem.

Quote:
I believe that learning never stops but the way we learn changes over time. I've never been a good book guy, the fastest way I learn is from watching and listening to folks with more experience then practice it. I've also learned plenty from folks with little experience, out of the mouths of babes and all.

[snip happened]

I've seen guys who have been licensed four years get certified as an MSF RC. They can run the class like a robot but they can't coach for shit.
Years of "riding experience" mean F-all when it comes to coaching ability. I'll take someone who's ridden 2,000 miles in a year over someone who's ridden the same mile 2,000 times for 20 years- i.e., someone who's bent on learning more vs. someone who isn't interested in improving themselves. But neither of those have anything to do with the ability to see what a student is doing and turn that around into coaching.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
Those that can -> do.
Those that can't-> troll.
You screwed it up.

Those who can't do, teach (and then post lots of pictures of it on the internet to everybody can see how big their metaphorical dick is).

I guess I must be a shitty rider, because I'm not plastering the internet with pictures of myself riding in a parking lot.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:55 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post


I suppose if I'd been as aggressive as OJ at posting my "creds" on the innernet you'd know just how stupid your comment is.

I'll say this, my experience is a bit more than 5,000 miles a year on straight roads dragging a trailer to ride 500 miles a year around cones with my knee down.
I don't know how much experience you actually have. I based my post on the fact that some of your posts make it appear that you don't have much experience. Perhaps you have ridden a lot of twisty roads but have never taken the time to observe what was going on around you. Or perhaps some fat old guy on a heavy bike embarrassed you at Deal's Gap and you have never gotten over it.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:02 PM   #176
Ritalin Boy
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
I believe it's a good thing for new or returning riders to take a beginning or returning rider course; it'd be nice if more states were open to have options on who provided the materials or to make local (state program approved) adjustments as deemed important to the state. Ahem.



Years of "riding experience" mean F-all when it comes to coaching ability. I'll take someone who's ridden 2,000 miles in a year over someone who's ridden the same mile 2,000 times for 20 years- i.e., someone who's bent on learning more vs. someone who isn't interested in improving themselves. But neither of those have anything to do with the ability to see what a student is doing and turn that around into coaching.
I think it takes a combo of ingredients to make a great coach, experience being one of them. I agree that on its own experience means F-all when it comes to coaching ability, coaches that put too much on their experience get all rigid and inflexible. I'll agree that riding experience doesn't mean much when looking at a rider for issues to correct but the more you coach the better you'll be at coaching *if* you had the stuff to be a good coach in the first place.

If a coach were to take this internet shite so seriously to flood an inbox with PM's quoting testimonials of his greatness I'd be the last person to suggest his course regardless of his experience.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post


I ride, And I ride a lot. Don't have time to have 5,000 posts on the internet.

I hate to tell you this, but none of those bikes are really suitable for posing

You must actually ride them or something.

maybe if you ask kpt4321, he'll let you know which of those bikes are shitty and
you can stop wasting your time on them.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Until he enlightens us, I'll just say that it looks like a pretty fun collection.
.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:07 PM   #178
TrashCan
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post


You screwed it up.

I guess I must be a shitty rider


Why don't we just leave it at that and call it even...


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Old 01-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post

:edit If that's your garage that has to be the most unimaginative collection of bikes I've ever seen.

I wonder how many final drives have failed him out on the road.

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post
Hey we get to disagree! I think everyone, well every new rider and re-entry rider should take an MSF course. In the modern world of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation the folks running the course are called Rider Coaches. Not teachers, not instructors but coaches and I believe there is good in this.

I believe that learning never stops but the way we learn changes over time. I've never been a good book guy, the fastest way I learn is from watching and listening to folks with more experience then practice it. I've also learned plenty from folks with little experience, out of the mouths of babes and all. From the BRC to Code, Penguin, track days and riding around with folks you respect one can always improve. I was lucky, after spending most of my motorcycling youth in a vacuum I met up with some great riders in my 30's and my enjoyment of riding increased exponentially.

Learning is a two way street and so much of it's success depends on the coach, teacher, mentor etc. I've seen good ones and bad ones. I've seen guys who have been licensed four years get certified as an MSF RC. They can run the class like a robot but they can't coach for shit. Often it's these "paper tigers" who are the most rigid as they have no experience to fall back on.

They're the ones who will tell you that regardless of what we see in the photo glasses don't impede a rider's ability to see when hanging off; or if you wear superman glasses that go from light to dark as fast as he can flick the bike you'll never notice you're wearing 'em. A good coach might recognize the comment as a valid point, then ask what possible things you could do to mitigate the issue. They might even suggest that if you're going to get serious about being on the track contacts might be better.

A good coach might realize that one frame posted on a forum often isn't enough to tell the whole story, or troll forums looking for places to insert pictures of his greatness.
I totally get where you are coming from and think you make a valid point every rider should be so lucky as to have some coaching and mentoring, I just don't feel that these lessons are exclusive to MSF.

i.e. the kid who grows up on bikes at the MX track or local circuit or the person lucky enough to be exposed to riding through a group of friends who know how to REALLY ride and are genuinely concerned for the newb's growth as a rider. I don't have a problem with the MSF or their courses but I don't think they have the learning market cornered or that they are the best at what they do.
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