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Old 01-01-2012, 03:17 PM   #46
TrashCan
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post



You don't need to hang off to pass me on Palomar, I'll move over, ease off, and wave you by when it's safe.

That is 2 fails right there.

If a faster rider catches you, you don't need to ease off, and he probably knows when it is safe better than you.

Surely, you should have know this...

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Old 01-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
the wing guy was not sliding .What the hell are you talking about?
The "cant turn it off and on" was from me ..My thoughts ,based on my experience. Were just talking about good body position for conering here .Dont have a clue where you are coming from Do you even know? Maybe just want to bash cause you cant do it too well? Better stick to dirt
I never said anything about the Wing rider sliding the bike. I was insinutating that I thought that guy was full of crap because it sounded like HE was the guy with the goofy "can't turn it off" thing.

I was coming from the fact that good body positioning is relative to speed, corner, and surface conditions. If you've ever ridden off road you'd understand the example.That both Gary Nixon and Ken Roberts along with the Hayden brothers seem to be able to corner without hanging off, or sticking a foot out, in spite of long careers that had them doing each. They seem to be able to "turn it off" quite readily, they can hang off in a corner when needed, ride in the saddle when needed, and stick a foot out when needed. In other words the "can't turn it off" thing sounds like a bunch of crap. But apparently it is you who is full of crap with that observation, not the Wing rider. My apologies to him.

If you "can't turn it off" you must be hanging off on every corner. Probably looks kinda funny and weird when you're simply turning a corner in town or pretty much cruising on some highway. I followed a guy who blew around me riding a CBR600RR. He was scooching over to hang off in every corner, in spite of the fact that his knee was like 3 feet off the ground. I was simply sitting in the seat and could run up his tail pipe on each corner. Gave him a beep of the horn on one of them. Really fast on the straights, but pretty sluglike in the corners in spite of his "hanging off skills". It seems proper body position doesn't always call for hanging off, in fact it seldom does when road riding.

To make it clear - that is what I am saying - "can't turn it off" is crap. I'm using my own experience. I never had any problem keeping a foot up on the pegs when riding the road, in spite of flat tracking experience. I also never had any problem foot down sliding on a short track in spite of my trials riding experience. I have played with hanging off in corners on the street, but find it isn't needed unless I'm really taking stupid risks, and I don't. About the most I've had to do is hang a knee out to alter my line a bit. So I could "turn it off", I guess that's part of the skill of riding in different conditions and on different bikes. Sometimes I need a specific positioning skill, sometimes I don't. When I don't, I don't do it. Apparently you say you can't do that... and you're telling me to stay in the dirt. Maybe you should go there and learn something.

If you really want an example of the concept of "can't turn it off" as bunk, you should watch some video of Jeff Ward running supermoto. In 2003 at Columbus Ohio round he used both the in-the-seat foot out cornering method and the hang off knee out cornering method in the same race! Seems a lot of riders can "turn it off" or on for that matter, some quicker than others and some in mid-race.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:53 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
As for hanging off, passing, and riding fast, they can all be done safely or unsafely. It all depends on the rider.
Based on the reasons to hang off, it is questionable if doing it is safe on public roads with traffic and unknown surface contitions. Since the whole purpose is to keep the bike more upright to keep tire contact at an optimum position, having to do so implies one is getting too close to 100%. As one approaches 100% there is progressively less and less room for error. Unless one is either Superman or a squid it is inadvisable to get too close to having no room for error.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
I never said anything about the Wing rider sliding the bike. I was insinutating that I thought that guy was full of crap because it sounded like HE was the guy with the goofy "can't turn it off" thing.

I was coming from the fact that good body positioning is relative to speed, corner, and surface conditions. If you've ever ridden off road you'd understand the example.That both Gary Nixon and Ken Roberts along with the Hayden brothers seem to be able to corner without hanging off, or sticking a foot out, in spite of long careers that had them doing each. They seem to be able to "turn it off" quite readily, they can hang off in a corner when needed, ride in the saddle when needed, and stick a foot out when needed. In other words the "can't turn it off" thing sounds like a bunch of crap. But apparently it is you who is full of crap with that observation, not the Wing rider. My apologies to him.

If you "can't turn it off" you must be hanging off on every corner. Probably looks kinda funny and weird when you're simply turning a corner in town or pretty much cruising on some highway. I followed a guy who blew around me riding a CBR600RR. He was scooching over to hang off in every corner, in spite of the fact that his knee was like 3 feet off the ground. I was simply sitting in the seat and could run up his tail pipe on each corner. Gave him a beep of the horn on one of them. Really fast on the straights, but pretty sluglike in the corners in spite of his "hanging off skills". It seems proper body position doesn't always call for hanging off, in fact it seldom does when road riding.

To make it clear - that is what I am saying - "can't turn it off" is crap. I'm using my own experience. I never had any problem keeping a foot up on the pegs when riding the road, in spite of flat tracking experience. I also never had any problem foot down sliding on a short track in spite of my trials riding experience. I have played with hanging off in corners on the street, but find it isn't needed unless I'm really taking stupid risks, and I don't. About the most I've had to do is hang a knee out to alter my line a bit. So I could "turn it off", I guess that's part of the skill of riding in different conditions and on different bikes. Sometimes I need a specific positioning skill, sometimes I don't. When I don't, I don't do it. Apparently you say you can't do that... and you're telling me to stay in the dirt. Maybe you should go there and learn something.

If you really want an example of the concept of "can't turn it off" as bunk, you should watch some video of Jeff Ward running supermoto. In 2003 at Columbus Ohio round he used both the in-the-seat foot out cornering method and the hang off knee out cornering method in the same race! Seems a lot of riders can "turn it off" or on for that matter, some quicker than others and some in mid-race.
look . I admit i dont know shit about riding dirt and sounds like you dont know too much about good body postion for pavement. Im sure you're hella fast sitting up like a statue.
Lets leave it at that.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:13 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
That is 2 fails right there.

If a faster rider catches you, you don't need to ease off, and he probably knows when it is safe better than you.

Surely, you should have know this...

Next time you are out for a ride with Shirley (the 300 pound transexual) on your pillion, just give me a toot of the horn to let me know that you are about to safely pass me at a high closing speed, on the inside, while hanging off and dragging a knee, left of the double yellow on a blind curve.

I've been roosted by several national champions and I always like to study the good riding form of future legends in the making.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:47 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
Next time you are out for a ride with Shirley (the 300 pound transexual) on your pillion, just give me a toot of the horn to let me know that you are about to safely pass me at a high closing speed, on the inside, while hanging off and dragging a knee, left of the double yellow on a blind curve.

I've been roosted by several national champions and I always like to study the good riding form of future legends in the making.
You fail again.
Please pay attention. I will type slow for you.
Reading comprehension,
try it sometime.

You don't have to ease off for a faster rider, and you damn sure don't have to tell him when it is safe to pass. He knows his and his bikes abilities far better than you.

Surely, you should have know this...
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:03 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
You fail again.
Please pay attention. I will type slow for you.
Reading comprehension, try it sometime.

You don't have to ease off for a faster rider, and you damn sure don't have to tell him when it is safe to pass. He knows his and his bikes abilities far better than you.

Surely, you should have know this...
You sure are a trusting soul, assuming that someone coming up behind you has skills like Casey Stoner. You must be a regular Madame Clio.

Didja see the video clip earlier in this thread where blinky light BMW guy got a lesson from Mr Speedy Sportbike guy on how to make the pass on the inside?

Maybe you and Shirley should take an MSF class, get some ABS, DTC... maybe a clue as well!


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Old 01-01-2012, 07:14 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
You sure are a trusting soul, assuming that someone coming up behind you has skills like Casey Stoner. You must be a regular Madame Clio.

Didja see the video clip earlier in this thread where blinky light BMW guy got a lesson from Mr Speedy Sportbike guy on how to make the pass on the inside?

Maybe you and Shirley should take an MSF class, get some ABS, DTC... maybe a clue as well!



I am done...you win.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:29 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
You fail again.
Please pay attention. I will type slow for you.
Reading comprehension,
try it sometime.

You don't have to ease off for a faster rider, and you damn sure don't have to tell him when it is safe to pass. He knows his and his bikes abilities far better than you.

Surely, you should have know this...
Seriously, that was a different thread like six months ago. GO THERE for this, m'kay?
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #55
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Don't worry, the overtaking rider knows his and his bikes capabilities far better than you ever could...

http://youtu.be/sfvvab_4u_Q
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Based on the reasons to hang off, it is questionable if doing it is safe on public roads with traffic and unknown surface contitions. Since the whole purpose is to keep the bike more upright to keep tire contact at an optimum position, having to do so implies one is getting too close to 100%. As one approaches 100% there is progressively less and less room for error. Unless one is either Superman or a squid it is inadvisable to get too close to having no room for error.
I would submit that you can have your knee on the ground and not be anywhere near 100%. It really depends on the rider, the bike, speed, and road conditions. Some of us use a larger percentage of our $1 worth of attention than others do. Also, just because you are leaning off the bike doesn't mean that you have to have your knee on the ground. A lot of times I'll lean off and keep my knee tucked.

Having said that, I've been around long enough to know that the majority of of riders don't have those skills and there are quite a few who shouldn't even own sport bikes. Riding within yourself is the key to survival on the street. BTW I learned my road skills in the mountains east of SD. The east grade of Palomar isn't my favorite by a long shot. The south grade on the other hand...
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:07 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
look . I admit i dont know shit about riding dirt and sounds like you dont know too much about good body postion for pavement. Im sure you're hella fast sitting up like a statue.
Lets leave it at that.
Generally in dirt you do whatever it takes to make it happen, and that is the beauty.

A few years ago there was an editorial in, I believe, Cycleworld and I wish I could remember who wrote it. Basically the gist of was that the author was sick of the road racing scene basically from all the bitching and moaning about "form" and the "proper way" and this and that. I see a lot of that here, and most of it seems like a lot of argument for the sake of argument.

There was one quote that really stuck with me though and I think it sums up a lot of the bickering in this forum, unfortunately I'm going to have to paraphrase it.

"Sure riding on the track (paved) you might die, but riding motocross you will get hurt."

I think that applies equally to adv/dirt v. street and the mentalities behind a lot of the attitudes in here. Everyone has a different background and different thoughts towards relative risk and almost certain injury. Projecting our choices upon others makes very little sense as it generally just serves to alienate. A questionable decision among those those who share a passion, an obsession, and a way of life.

But if all ya'll care about is comparing your e-penii, then carry on.

In the mean time here is a sweet picture of someone having a blast riding a motorcycle in relative safety in a public non closed course setting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
Don't worry, the overtaking rider knows his and his bikes capabilities far better than you ever could...

http://youtu.be/sfvvab_4u_Q
As an addition, that is a poor example for refuting the point you disagree with. Easing off and pulling over would have had no effect on the outcome, the rider stood up after the crash, and caused no evident collateral damage other than raising everyone else's insurance rates a fraction of a cent and the video provides no conclusive evidence as to his/her skill level other than it was surpassed by the conditions. Would I behave like that? Awwww hellll no, but I certainly understand why one might as long as they are willing to accept the consequences,
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
Generally in dirt you do whatever it takes to make it happen, and that is the beauty.

A few years ago there was an editorial in, I believe, Cycleworld and I wish I could remember who wrote it. Basically the gist of was that the author was sick of the road racing scene basically from all the bitching and moaning about "form" and the "proper way" and this and that. I see a lot of that here, and most of it seems like a lot of argument for the sake of argument.

There was one quote that really stuck with me though and I think it sums up a lot of the bickering in this forum, unfortunately I'm going to have to paraphrase it.

"Sure riding on the track (paved) you might die, but riding motocross you will get hurt."

I think that applies equally to adv/dirt v. street and the mentalities behind a lot of the attitudes in here. Everyone has a different background and different thoughts towards relative risk and almost certain injury. Projecting our choices upon others makes very little sense as it generally just serves to alienate. A questionable decision among those those who share a passion, an obsession, and a way of life.

But if all ya'll care about is comparing your e-penii, then carry on.

In the mean time here is a sweet picture of someone having a blast riding a motorcycle in relative safety in a public non closed course setting.





As an addition, that is a poor example for refuting the point you disagree with. Easing off and pulling over would have had no effect on the outcome, the rider stood up after the crash, and caused no evident collateral damage other than raising everyone else's insurance rates a fraction of a cent and the video provides no conclusive evidence as to his/her skill level other than it was surpassed by the conditions. Would I behave like that? Awwww hellll no, but I certainly understand why one might as long as they are willing to accept the consequences,
it took me a few years to get the body position right for track/pavement. I thought the people intructing me were out of their minds because it felt so awkward to me but i really wanted to learn it .Im just like that with motorcycles .
I m old and had many years of bad habits to erase. Finaly got it and it feels pretty natural. The benifit is so obvious now .I just hate when close minded poeple start spouting off about things they dont know much about. I wouldnt go to the dirt and start critsizing thier tecniques .Id would try to mimic and learn.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:15 AM   #59
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:30 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
You don't need to hang off to pass me on Palomar, I'll move over, ease off, and wave you by when it's safe.

.
I do appreciate it when someone does this. I do the same when someone comes up behind me



Quote:
Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
That is 2 fails right there.

If a faster rider catches you, you don't need to ease off, and he probably knows when it is safe better than you.

Surely, you should have know this...

I have to agree with lemieuxmc on this one. On many of the roads I ride there are limited places where you can safely pass. Just because someone catches you doesn't mean they have enough power or room to pass.

There is nothing more frustrating than catching up to someone who has 5 times your horsepower, likes to go fast on the straights but has no clue how to go around curves. It is very difficult to pass in situations like this. Since I ride a bunch of underpowered bikes, I have often found myself in this situation.

Or in some cases you just catch up to a rider who is riding well, but just slightly slower than you. It can be very difficult to pass in this situation too.

When someone catches up behind me, I will pull to the right and ease off too. Pretty much everyone who has passed me when I have done this has given me a "thank you" wave.


We would have a lot fewer accidents out there if people would be a little more courteous.



And just to get back on topic:


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