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Old 06-30-2014, 09:22 AM   #1
ChrisGS1 OP
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water torture

not the chinese kind..., I've read up on this, but it seems that there's no good sources for the steps involved. Is this commonly done with R1150 engines to de-carbonize the piston crowns, etc.? Supposedly, this helps with pinging or detonation, because the carbon buildup causes a higher compression ratio than stock. I don't think I've got pinging issues, I fill up with 95RON always. Who has done this before?What were the results? supposedly, you remove the little rubber cap on the throttle bodies (usually used to sync the throttle bodies with a manometer), and connect a hose that is put inside a container of water that holds around 500ml of water. I take it you do one side at a time. Would doing this necessitate an oil change? Seems it's possible that carbon chemically reacts with water: http://www.webelements.com/carbon/chemistry.html

Any comments?

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Old 06-30-2014, 09:32 AM   #2
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Connecting the vacuum gauge point straight to water isn't a good idea. On a closed throttle it will suck in a whole load of water. It needs to be introduced as a fine spray much like fuel. When done properly it can have the affect of steam cleaning the piston tops/combustion chamber. Going by what happens when the head gasket on a water cooled engine goes it should work but it takes a good while. Probably better and easier to put a fuel treatment in that will most likely work faster.
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:41 AM   #3
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I've done it just the way you describe (attaching a line to the port on the throttle body). It worked, but it was always a temporary fix for me. The pinging returned after a short period of time. I finally cured it by replacing my GS intake tubes with a set of RT intake tubes. They are pretty cheap and a lot of RT rdiers have gone the other way (RT to GS tubes) so you can find them used pretty easily. Try www.bmwsporttouring.com.
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
I've done it just the way you describe (attaching a line to the port on the throttle body). It worked, but it was always a temporary fix for me. The pinging returned after a short period of time. I finally cured it by replacing my GS intake tubes with a set of RT intake tubes. They are pretty cheap and a lot of RT rdiers have gone the other way (RT to GS tubes) so you can find them used pretty easily. Try www.bmwsporttouring.com.
Thanks, I recently fitted RT tubes. I must say that if I do this, it will not be because I've got a big issue with pinging. Maybe it's there, but I can't really hear it. Maybe it's because I fill up with 95RON. Just though it be a good idea to get rid of the carbon deposits, which is there. seems that carbon build up is an issue with these engines
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:00 PM   #5
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I have found that wringing it out seems to help. My oilheads spend a significant amount of time above 7000 rpm.
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:34 PM   #6
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At what RPM should you keep the engine, while the vacuum hoses are fixed? What is the procedure, step wise, pls.
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:39 PM   #7
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I don't think anyone ever wrote down a procedure, per se. I'd warm up the engine, then dip the hose into the water for a sceond or two while revving to a few thousand rpms. The engine will try to bog down so you have to keep the rpm up a bit. It will also make a lot of white smoke. Three or four dips on each side and I called it good.
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:57 PM   #8
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I don't think anyone ever wrote down a procedure, per se. I'd warm up the engine, then dip the hose into the water for a sceond or two while revving to a few thousand rpms. The engine will try to bog down so you have to keep the rpm up a bit. It will also make a lot of white smoke. Three or four dips on each side and I called it good.
Thanks!
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:48 PM   #9
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pinging stops with af-xied

try an af-xied from the boneyard. mine doesn't ping much anymore.
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Old 06-30-2014, 04:01 PM   #10
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What Jim Moore said. If you can't hear it pinging, It probably isn't. Put some fuel treatment in it and ride the snot out of it.
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Old 06-30-2014, 04:25 PM   #11
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Yes it works

Take a water bottle with 250 ccm, rubber strap it on the crash bar and hang a 5-6mm hose in it hooked up to the vacuum port. pinch the hose so it only lets a small amount air / water thru ( I have a Hose closure for fuel lines like a small C-clamp). Ride the bike with normal rpm till the bottle is empty and do the same on the other side. Try not to much riding with the closed throttle valve.
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Old 06-30-2014, 05:49 PM   #12
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Watch out for rust after you put water into your engine. Also, your oil will likely be no good (TBN below 2 and some ash).

IMO, putting water into a running piston engine is not a good idea.
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Old 06-30-2014, 05:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGS1 View Post
not the chinese kind..., I've read up on this, but it seems that there's no good sources for the steps involved. Is this commonly done with R1150 engines to de-carbonize the piston crowns, etc.? Supposedly, this helps with pinging or detonation, because the carbon buildup causes a higher compression ratio than stock. I don't think I've got pinging issues, I fill up with 95RON always. Who has done this before?What were the results? supposedly, you remove the little rubber cap on the throttle bodies (usually used to sync the throttle bodies with a manometer), and connect a hose that is put inside a container of water that holds around 500ml of water. I take it you do one side at a time. Would doing this necessitate an oil change? Seems it's possible that carbon chemically reacts with water: http://www.webelements.com/carbon/chemistry.html

Any comments?
You seem to think you do not have any detonation issues. Also, you use 95RON fuel exclusively. Carbon does not react chemically with water to any significant extent. So, why are you even considering trying to make a steam engine out of a perfectly good gasoline fueled piston engine? Makes no sense.

Would you consider adding two or three cans of STP to your engine oil? Why? Why not?

Leave well enough alone and continue riding.
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:39 AM   #14
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Your best bet is to use BG products! The 44K and the throttle body intake spray WILL CLEAN off the carbon!!!

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_8lqto1hz88_b

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPy-4Vzvedc

Also Royal Purple makes a product. I have never tested/ tried it. But it does have a very good reputation.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/p...aign=rpgeneral


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...jector+cleaner


I started repairing cars as a professional in 1978. Before that as a hobby starting in 1967. I could make more doing that than electronics of which I have a degree in.
...in those days we replaced points and condensers!!!! It was a whole different world then. Men were men and men who were .....errr...ummm never mind.
Water was introduced thru the carb ( very very few FI ice then). It seemed to help. No one made a product to clean off carbon "per se". I know some that used ATF. I have no idea if that made things worse or not. Water did seem to help the 60's and 70's era cars that we worked on. We would use a spray bottle... hold engine at about~ 2000 rpm and spray distilled water into carb...at a rate sufficient to slightly bog down the engine.

FYI... You do not need to worry about engine rusting and changing the oil right away. Why?... fighter planes in the german luftwaffe used water injection to great results.. and did the allies on the P51 mustang and the P-38 lightning.

If Jimmy Doolittle had not bombed the German Ball bearing factories in to dust, we would all be speaking German! Their efforts with synthetic oil and fuel.... far out did anything we could do. BTW.. that synthetic oil knowledge was the foundation upon the birth of modern day RP..... now you know the rest of the story!
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:36 AM   #15
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It seemed to help. No one made a product to clean off carbon "per se". Shell and others made a combustion chamber carbon removal product that had mixed results during the TEL years.

I know some that used ATF. I have no idea if that made things worse or not.

Some used ATF to free coked rings and noisy lifters in the long stroke Ford engines. Water did seem to help the 60's and 70's era cars that we worked on. We would use a spray bottle... hold engine at about~ 2000 rpm and spray distilled water into carb...at a rate sufficient to slightly bog down the engine. Ingesting water short term has little or no affect on engine carbon. For the technique to work, water must be ingested over longer periods like a few weeks and under load.

FYI... You do not need to worry about engine rusting and changing the oil right away. Why?... fighter planes in the german luftwaffe used water injection to great results.. and did the allies on the P51 mustang and the P-38 lightning. BTW, those WWII fighters that engaged their water/alchohol injection as a last ditch to outrun the Germans, usually landed with an engine that was pretty much junk.


If Jimmy Doolittle had not bombed the German Ball bearing factories in to dust, we would all be speaking German! Their efforts with synthetic oil and fuel.... far out did anything we could do. BTW.. that synthetic oil knowledge was the foundation upon the birth of modern day RP..... now you know the rest of the story!
Doolittle was know for his raid on Japan using carrier-launched B-25 Mitchell bombers.

The bombing campaign over German industrial sites (Schweinfurt bombing campaign) was carried out using B-17s with limited success. I have a late friend who piloted three FFs, having two shot out from under him.
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