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Old 12-24-2013, 02:48 AM   #1066
davorallyfan
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I'd like to buy a brit single from the 40's 50's 60's. The affordable ones are grey porridge ...the interesting ones are way overpriced. What to do? I'll either go pre 40's or get another jap twoie riders bike from the 70's / 80's
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:03 AM   #1067
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Yes, the asking prices here are stupid for the condition most are in. $8-9K for a 350 or 500 Matchless/AJS import that is going to need a lot of time and another grand or so to get reliable. I've been after a late model B33 or a '58/9 Red Hunter for years but there aren't many for sale and at prices far beyond their worth. Last '58 Red Hunter I saw for sale was $12K and it probably needed another $3K spent on it to get all the kludges sorted. I notice Velo Thruxtons are getting up towards the $40K mark and even the cooking models are around $20K; two years ago that would have bought a mint Gold Star, but another $10K would be needed now. There's nothing really wrong with the AJS, Matchless, Ariel or BSA heavyweight touring singles; not as exciting as a Velo or Goldie, but they are a lot easier to live with. I doubt I'll ever buy another sporting 500 single; parts are expensive, they do require a fair bit of maintenance and they are downright uncomfortable at my age on our local goat tracks.

My AJS is up for sale - you'll find it on Bikesales in SA, price negotiable from that specified. I've been asked to do a full restoration of a B33 and haven't got the space so the AJ or the Hornet has to go beforehand. Not overly fussed if it doesn't sell as I've had a 40 year love affair with the G80/M18S models, but restoring bikes is fun and it brings in a decent amount of money - which I'd probably spend on a mid 50's BSA 500 Star twin. Feel like it's time for an old twin again.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:16 AM   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIOB View Post
Scrivens: Again, thank you for taking your time to explain it so elaborately. I will print it and as soon as it;s dry (I have to work on the bike outside) I'll start with the timing.
Third owner of a 60 years old bike is quite an achievement. I think I'm the 4th owner of my 2006 Hornet, and it only had 9000km on it when I bought it.

As to the instructions, you are more than welcome. I'd suggest downloading that AJS manual and readingit through first as it gives very clear guides for a lot of the normal maintenance activities, and the engines are similar enough for you to use it to pad out the surprising lack of information in the Ariel manual - which doesn't even have a specifications section or any decent instructional drawings.

Once you get it running, come back and let us all know how it goes.
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:04 AM   #1069
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:30 AM   #1070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrivens View Post
Third owner of a 60 years old bike is quite an achievement. I think I'm the 4th owner of my 2006 Hornet, and it only had 9000km on it when I bought it.

As to the instructions, you are more than welcome. I'd suggest downloading that AJS manual and readingit through first as it gives very clear guides for a lot of the normal maintenance activities, and the engines are similar enough for you to use it to pad out the surprising lack of information in the Ariel manual - which doesn't even have a specifications section or any decent instructional drawings.

Once you get it running, come back and let us all know how it goes.


Downloaded the AJS manual, it is indeed much clearer.

I got it running, but is it really hard to start and won't idle. It will spit through the carb (backfire) and at the same time I can hear bangs coming from the exhaust. It will only run on full choke, if I even look at the choke it will die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxZMQZxPN3k

I am sure the timing is (now) correct, valve timing is too. I checked that it is getting fuel (it does), I cleaned the carb (a few times) and replaced the inlet gasket. I read that the points have their own magneto, so the other electrics (and lack of a battery) can't be the cause.

I have no clue what to look at next, any ideas?

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Old 12-29-2013, 09:12 AM   #1071
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Just for clarity. The picture in the post above seems to show your bike with the choke fully off and the ignition fully advanced is that right?

Mine had an issue with the carb that made for some erratic running so it was swapped out for a new concentric. This sorted the running out.

I think you need to look at your carb. The good news is that everything including a complete carb is available new and are a better quality than the originals. Tech manual is here http://www.draganfly.co.uk/data/pdf/Amaltype6tuning.pdf

The standard settings for your carb are here http://amalcarb.co.uk/carbspec/carbu...pares/id/4581/ I'd have a good look at the float height.

Have you checked the valve clearances and made sure the decompressor is coming off completely?

Amal are a really good company to deal with and are very helpful on the phone. Hopefully they'll understand a Dutchman with an Australian accent ;-)

Rob Farmer screwed with this post 12-29-2013 at 09:33 AM
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:07 PM   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIOB View Post
I got it running, but is it really hard to start and won't idle. It will spit through the carb (backfire) and at the same time I can hear bangs coming from the exhaust. It will only run on full choke, if I even look at the choke it will die.
It sounds healthy enough when it is running, so I'd say the carb is shot or you have a bad air leak at the intake. I had my 289 series AMAL completely rebuilt back to original spec, slide and all jets etc, but it was still pretty dire so I replaced it with a new 389 Monobloc from Burdens (AMAL UK) - about half the price of a new 289 - and the bike runs beautifully. The Concentrics are about half the price again and a very good carb but you'll need to ask about the right jets etc before you put in your order.

Pull the carb off and check whether the mounting flange (and both sides of any inlet spacer if fitted) is completely flat. A flat surface like a formica topped bench or a window will do; get some 1200 wet and dry paper and damp it, put the entire sheet on the flat surface and making sure the carb flange is held completely flat against it, gently rub it up and down half a dozen times. If it shows the rub marks uniformly across the flange then it is flat; if some areas are still untouched then you have a warp. If the difference is significant - more than about half the thickness of a gasket - air will be leaking past and leaning out the mixture. (If you are careful you can use the same method to grind out the warp, but it needs a lot of care if you are doing it for the first time.) A quick test for an inlet leak is to smear the gaskets with some silicon sealer and nip the carb up and see if it runs better. The carb should always be tightened with a short spanner to no more than a few foot/lbs - just nipped up firmly, as both the flange and the body can warp if overtightened. The silicon will knacker the gaskets so you'll eventually need a new set of those.

The other thing to check is the washer/gasket I have mentioned before which is under the mixing chamber nut. If that is missing or partially blocking the hole in the mixing body the carb will not work properly. I'd also have a look at the float to check the clip is still in its original condition and correctly locating the needle. The pics on the Burden site will show you what the clip should look like, flat across the top and not bowed out. Needle nose pliers and some very gentle bending will get it back to spec. In the end it is probably worth spending €100 on a new carb and saving a lot of time and frustration. Burdens have to build each carb individually so it can take a couple of weeks to get the new one.

It's also possible the head gasket has a leak, which can cause similar symptoms. Get a bright torch (LCDs are excellent) and have a look at the head/barrel joint area between the fins for signs of oil seepage. It is also worth rechecking the points gap as it can close up as the follower wears off the crud of a dozen years standing. Give the points a clean with a slip of the 1200 wet and dry wrapped around a feeler gauge. If you are still using the old plug, replace it with a new B7ES gapped to 18 thou.

(Did you check your jet and needle numbers against the specs on the Burden's site, and is the needle clip in the correct slot? Never safe to assume that the carb is standard; my current AJS had a right mix of incorrect bits in it, and it was supposedly restored by the previous owner.)

Scrivens screwed with this post 12-29-2013 at 06:26 PM Reason: typos...
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:00 AM   #1073
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Thanks guys! The links were a lot of help. I checked the carb again. It turned out that the clip of the floater isn't strong enough, the float kept slipping out of the notch in the float needle.

I had also read that pre monoblocs didn't warp. Having placed a thick new gasketr I previously wans't worried, but after your comments I checked it against a (few) window(s) and it was very much warped (over a mm!). So I set of grinding and re-installed it with some liquide gasket. It ran pretty much ok for a while after that, but later it started coughing again. I guess the liquid gasket hadn't dried enough yet. Back to grinding to try to straighten it out more.


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Old 12-30-2013, 03:01 AM   #1074
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Theres an interesting article here http://velobanjogent.blogspot.co.uk/...rly-1930s.html about the two types of your carb. One where the air for the pilot sytem is designed to be drawn through the air filter and another where its drawn in below the carb. The service bulletins are worth a read.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:30 AM   #1075
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Looks like Triumph weren't the first with the twin headlight setup

1948

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Old 12-30-2013, 03:56 AM   #1076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Farmer View Post
Theres an interesting article here http://velobanjogent.blogspot.co.uk/...rly-1930s.html about the two types of your carb. One where the air for the pilot sytem is designed to be drawn through the air filter and another where its drawn in below the carb. The service bulletins are worth a read.
Matchless/AJS used both types on their bikes in a somewhat random fashion it seems. They were the last of AMAL's customers for the pre-monos so I suppose they used up their remaining stocks. My '53 had the 'big bore' 1 5/32" 89N/IED version complete with under chamber pilot air holes, which can be seen in the pic.



Those AMAL carb maintenance/tuning leaflets are brilliant - and they still ship new carbs with them.

MIOB - The pre-monos do warp, especially the bodies. Given the flange warping and the float problem, trust me it would be simpler to get a new carb and put the time you'll save sorting your old one out to better use on other parts of the bike. Even after a complete (and expensive) rebuild including the needle, every jet, gasket, float parts, hard chromed slide and matched boring of the body, my 89N's performance was nowhere near the 'out of the box' performance of the new 389 Monobloc. The Concentrics are inexpensive, excellent carbs and the modern ones are very reliable.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:11 AM   #1077
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Originally Posted by Scrivens View Post
The Concentrics are inexpensive, excellent carbs and the modern ones are very reliable.
Yep! Just put the original in a box and fit a concentric. Then you can get on with riding.

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Old 12-30-2013, 07:21 AM   #1078
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It juist so heppens to be that I have a Amal concentric in my spare parts bin. I bought it together with a Bing carb for my Enfield. The Bing was easier to put on the Enfield (and is doing more than brilliantly on the Enfield, fantastic carb!!), so the Amal was left over.




I put it on the Ariel with some effort. It runs great now, it needs some minor fine tuning, but really only minor. The bike rides great now, very easy to ride, my girlfriend agrees:



Thanks for all the advice guys!
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:05 AM   #1079
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Great stuff
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:25 AM   #1080
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Originally Posted by Rob Farmer View Post
Looks like Triumph weren't the first with the twin headlight setup

Not even second!
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