450cc ADV bikes

[bobnoxious67]

Originally Posted by Llamaha

Also your post about 50hp reminded me of this video where the YZ250 can't lose the WR250R:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznzFWmVZp0

YZ250's are close to 50 right? Weigh about 100kg? My old RM250 was about that anyway and I'm pretty sure I'm faster on the trails with the WR250R than I was on that bike. It's not all about HP, especially not for adventure riding.

Let's not confuse rider ability with bike ability, M'kay? The dude on the YZ is...umm... a bit slow and unsure

Originally Posted by xy500

So, where does that leave you... new piston every 6 months?

Stick your head back in the sand. KTHNXBYE.

[VxZeroKnots]

Originally Posted by bobnoxious67

We're not "screaming" that you should buy a Euro bike (despite the fact that the bike being asked for pretty much already exists in a couple different flavors...just more cc's), we're screaming at you to SPOBI about Euro bikes regarding their maintenance/cost/durability

I just don't understand what the "450 ADV Bike" hopeful are hoping to get that doesn't already exist...news flash, if Yamaha took the WR250R and made a 450 version, it would be a 300lb class bike just like LC4's and TE610/630's (minus the cc's)...and if they kept it just like the WR450F but street legal with lights, it would be a heavier version (and as expensive or more) than a TE449 or 450EXC

While you're waiting for what you think will be the perfect bike, those of us not hung up on interwebby myth and brand fixation are already enjoying them

Ride what you love-love what you ride.

Basically I think what is wanted is a DRZ 400 with a sixth gear or a LC4 400 both with fuel injection. and for about $6k

Fair enough folks, but there is little advantage to either of those bikes or anything like them (read wr450r) over a 600cc class bike except for a marginal improvement in fuel economy and possibly engine component service life.

In the mean time, live a little, and try out one of the current 450 offerings. No matter what bike you choose, be it a wr250r or exc450, the chassis is going to require hard parts replacement long before the engine if you have any fun with it. As far as I know most bikes have equal quality bearings, seals, and the frame material all probably comes from the same place in China.

To those comparing the wr250r to a 250 2T or 6XX 4T i want what you are smoking if you think a youtube video or your personal riding is anywhere near a valid comparison of machine performance for anything but your personal subset of riding. I can understand if someone rides under the ability of said machine that a higher performance machine constitutes no advantage, but that is a reflection on rider skill not machine performance.

[Hayduke]

Neduro has a pretty cool 450 "Adventure" bike, that managed to do the equivalent of Anchorage to Key West, plus 500 miles, much of it at "race pace".

[Llamaha]

Originally Posted by Crazy_Dave

No one’s talking 2-up. If that’s the case I take the BMW.
I bet your g/f just loves being on the back of that 250 for all day riding. .
I commute 65mi back and forth to work and yep, I do it on the fofiddy EXC without missing a beat.

If you're on an adventure in the middle of nowhere then you can't just 'take the BMW'. Personally I think a real adventure bike should be ready for anything, of course this will mean that it won't be the best at anything and will also gain a few kilos in the process.

Also I think it's great that you have the time, money and space for multiple motorcycles but most people (that I know) do not

[FatherX]

Originally Posted by Hayduke

Neduro has a pretty cool 450 "Adventure" bike, that managed to do the equivalent of Anchorage to Key West, plus 500 miles, much of it at "race pace".

Is it for sale?

[Hayduke]

Originally Posted by FatherX

Is it for sale?

No, but all you need is a KTM 450 (or 530), and a Rally Moto Kit.

Ned has more experience using a 450 and 530 ktm for long distance off road riding than anyone I know, and when he decided which bike to race in the Dakar, he chose a KTM 450 XCW. He finished with no major mechanical problems. I think the only problem was losing a countershaft sprocket bolt. Pretty good testimony to the durability of these bikes.

[FatherX]

Originally Posted by Hayduke

No, but all you need is a KTM 450 (or 530), and a Rally Moto Kit.

Ned has more experience using a 450 and 530 ktm for long distance off road riding than anyone I know, and when he decided which bike to race in the Dakar, he chose a KTM 450 XCW. He finished with no major mechanical problems. I think the only problem was losing a countershaft sprocket bolt. Pretty good testimony to the durability of these bikes.

hmmm.....good to know.

Can I get FX instead of Ned?

[Hayduke]

Originally Posted by FatherX

hmmm.....good to know.

Can I get FX instead of Ned?

I think that was just a one-off thing for Neduro.

[FatherX]

just my luck

[Crazy_Dave]

Originally Posted by Llamaha

If you're on an adventure in the middle of nowhere then you can't just 'take the BMW'. Personally I think a real adventure bike should be ready for anything, of course this will mean that it won't be the best at anything and will also gain a few kilos in the process.

Also I think it's great that you have the time, money and space for multiple motorcycles but most people (that I know) do not

Window licker, what the fu*k are you talking about? It’s not like Id start riding on one bike and then ………………. Oops lets change up. I’d take the bike that suits what I plan to do with it.
I bought the BMW specifically for my G/F. I enjoy her company and want her to ride along with me and that ant going to happen on the back of an EXC. Solo riding; Id put my EXC thru the paces with any thumper out there.
BTW I work my a$$ off for the things I have. I’ve gone without for many years so I could save for the things I wanted and not go in debt.

[GeckoRider]

Not bashing KTM here, just asking out of ignorance. From what little I have seen of the Dakar Races it looked like just about every motorcycle was being given at least a very good looking over if not some serious tear down/rebuild while the riders were sleeping. Seems like just about any motorcycle would gain a huge amount of reliability if every night you went to bed a fairy mechanic came out and gave your ride a once over. . .

Am I wrong? Did Ned just run that thing from Start to Finish without anyone else but himself? Thought that was one of the real world issues with racing motorcycles was all the frequent oil changes, rebuilds, etc? What is the story?

[mrt10x]

Originally Posted by GeckoRider

Not bashing KTM here, just asking out of ignorance. From what little I have seen of the Dakar Races it looked like just about every motorcycle was being given at least a very good looking over if not some serious tear down/rebuild while the riders were sleeping. Seems like just about any motorcycle would gain a huge amount of reliability if every night you went to bed a fairy mechanic came out and gave your ride a once over. . .

Am I wrong? Did Ned just run that thing from Start to Finish without anyone else but himself? Thought that was one of the real world issues with racing motorcycles was all the frequent oil changes, rebuilds, etc? What is the story?

Well he did have that one little engine change in the middle of the race.. from what I understand it wasn't "necessary" but done as a precaution... it was still an engine change... as did the 1st and 2nd place KTMs.

This arguement has no answer, of course, because no one will agree on what "adventure" or "dual-sport" means. If we can not even agree on what the basic terms of the discussion are, how could an answer ever be agreed upon?

[Hayduke]

Originally Posted by GeckoRider

Not bashing KTM here, just asking out of ignorance. From what little I have seen of the Dakar Races it looked like just about every motorcycle was being given at least a very good looking over if not some serious tear down/rebuild while the riders were sleeping. Seems like just about any motorcycle would gain a huge amount of reliability if every night you went to bed a fairy mechanic came out and gave your ride a once over. . .

Am I wrong? Did Ned just run that thing from Start to Finish without anyone else but himself? Thought that was one of the real world issues with racing motorcycles was all the frequent oil changes, rebuilds, etc? What is the story?

You are right; Ned did change oil and filters, plus air filters every night, except the night of the marathon stage. If you can, then why not? He changed a motor on the rest day (not sure how many miles that was into the race) because you can; he said that the first motor felt fine, though. Nothing else was done.

From his stories, it went through a lot more abuse than I would ever give a bike during "adventure" riding.

[spagthorpe]

Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots

Basically I think what is wanted is a DRZ 400 with a sixth gear or a LC4 400 both with fuel injection. and for about $6k

A 6th gear would help. Shedding a little weight would as well. I still remember doing a desert riding class on mine, with everyone else in the class on the rented Yamaha WRs and a few YZs. It was interesting....

I had issues in a lot of places. I had to run much faster to keep it up in the sand, which my skill level wasn't really up to. Some of the hill climbs were rough, and in a few places, my bike wouldn't hold traction riding along the side of the hill we were on. I was running 606s I think. The WRs were probably not on DOT tires. Anyway, the real eye opener for me was getting a few minutes on one of the WRs later. That 50lbs made a big difference.

Otherwise, I liked the DRZ, and building one up would be fun. I just wish there was a way to lose that heft.

[VxZeroKnots]

Originally Posted by spagthorpe

A 6th gear would help. Shedding a little weight would as well. I still remember doing a desert riding class on mine, with everyone else in the class on the rented Yamaha WRs and a few YZs. It was interesting....

I had issues in a lot of places. I had to run much faster to keep it up in the sand, which my skill level wasn't really up to. Some of the hill climbs were rough, and in a few places, my bike wouldn't hold traction riding along the side of the hill we were on. I was running 606s I think. The WRs were probably not on DOT tires. Anyway, the real eye opener for me was getting a few minutes on one of the WRs later. That 50lbs made a big difference.

Otherwise, I liked the DRZ, and building one up would be fun. I just wish there was a way to lose that heft.

My first bike was a DRZ, it was a great first bike and the thing is a hammer but I couldn't get over the transmission and the weight. Another thing is the stator and clutch cover durability, it is always funny to hear about the fragile enduro race bikes when my first dual sport got holes in it on the slightest dump.

Personally I found the 606's to be very much acceptable on my DRZ as well as my LC4 for the type of adventure riding I like, I also very much enjoyed the Michelin 51s I believe they were called on the LC4.

I now own a TE310 as my dual sport and I feel it is everything I wanted the DRZ to be, except it too has a close ratio transmission. Being the TE is a substantially lighter feeling bike and handles much better I'm willing to look past the close ratio tranny and am absolutely in love with it. I'm toying with the idea of riding it from Colorado to Los Cabos this May and the one factor swaying me against it is putting up with the buzz at high RPM's on the slab.

I of course could gear it taller and lose some off road prowess, but I have a hard time believing it still wouldn't be better than either my DRZ or LC4 all things considered. I remember the first time I rode it on tarmac and being blown away how smooth it felt on the road, though it does handle like a roller skate in cross winds.

The valves haven't moved a fraction of a millimeter despite me completely ignoring break in procedure and the engine spends a lot of it's life in the dirt at or near red line. Oil changes are actually spec'ed in the manual to be every 3000mi when ridden as a dual sport but I probably change it every 200-500mi along with a quick valve check which doesn't even require me to remove the tank to accomplish.

Personally I enjoy the maintenance and find peace of mind being familiar with the inside of my mill and thusly being more likely to notice any trends towards component failure. Doing work on the Husky more frequently, to me, is better than doing it less on the DRZ just due to how easy the Husky is to work on. YMMV