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Old 02-29-2012, 08:05 PM   #271
svejkovat
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Here's a 400cc ADV bike I'd buy from Honda's sales floor tomorrow morning if they'd bring it here to the US.


XL400V Transalp. Seems to answer quite a few points on the wish lists here for adventure in this range of displacement.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:22 PM   #272
Luke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llamaha View Post
Nobody is saying they're not good enough, rather that they are Enduro bikes, not Adventure bikes.

Think of a DRZ400e vs DRZ400s or WR250f vs WR250R (these are actually very different) or 640 LC4e vs 640 adventure. They are similarly priced with the same quality but latter models are heavier and detuned in order to accomplish a goal other than winning races. Anything which doesn't help the enduro bikes such as WR450f, KTM450exc etc win races will likely be removed or have the bare minimum attached to allow it on the street.

You may have the sharpest axe in the shed but a cheap hammer will still be better at driving nails... just sayin'.
Sure, I agree completely; but apparently those bikes aren't good enough either.

Look at the original post. "will there be 450cc adventure bikes?" It's silly, there already are lots of them. They aren't all the same; some people pick the one they like and ride it, others complain.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:37 PM   #273
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Eh? You left a word out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Sure, I agree completely; but apparently those bikes aren't good enough either.

Look at the original post. "will there be 450cc adventure bikes?" It's silly, there already are lots of them. They aren't all the same; some people pick the one they like and ride it, others complain.
"Since the DAKAR has gone to a 450cc maximum displacement for bikes, do you think manufacturers will release a plethora of new 450cc dual-sports?"
Although I admit, I have learned about a few manufacturers/models that I had overlooked.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:45 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
The KTM's and Huskies are...
Sorry for any confusion, I was referring to the KLX, WR, and CRF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llamaha View Post
Nobody is saying they're not good enough, rather that they are Enduro bikes, not Adventure bikes.

Think of a DRZ400e vs DRZ400s or WR250f vs WR250R (these are actually very different) or 640 LC4e vs 640 adventure. They are similarly priced with the same quality but latter models are heavier and detuned in order to accomplish a goal other than winning races. Anything which doesn't help the enduro bikes such as WR450f, KTM450exc etc win races will likely be removed or have the bare minimum attached to allow it on the street.

You may have the sharpest axe in the shed but a cheap hammer will still be better at driving nails... just sayin'.
I disagree with your sentiments, but that is likely a difference in opinion as to what constitutes adventure. I also believe a 640a and 640e have an identical state of tune for a given year but different body work, perhaps you meant the 625sx? I owned a 640a, during my travels I often wished to not have the fairing as it constituted a weight and complexity disadvantage and had no real advantage other than looks to someone who doesn't use a GPS or road book. Its wind protection was negligible in my experience, a rider of different stature may have a different experience. I was absolutely in love with its large fuel capacity and thusly any adventure bike I may own will be retrofitted to be as near to that capacity as possible if need be.

I don't like riding on pavement, I don't like carrying any more than I have to, and I hate having a heavy ill handling bike offroad. My adventure rides emphasize dirt travel as much as possible as that is what I do enjoy, I can put up with ill pavement manners and discomfort as a result. I don't feel the draw to a bike which has a bunch of unnecessary plastic and weight any more than some don't feel the draw towards a bike which requires being cracked open more often. I really don't understand what niche a heavy, low power, poorly suspended 450 would fill that a nicely powered, modern design, well suspended 6XX already doesn't. If you want a nicely powered, modern design, well suspended 450 then they already exist in at least 4 colors that I can think of off the top of my head.

I have owned what I consider to be Japan's most modern 400 class dual sport (DRZ), I have owned a 640a, I have a european "enduro" bike. There is no doubt in my mind that there is nothing an affordable 450 dual sport can do that a current 600 class dual sport won't surpass. If you want better street manners than the current 450's offer then you aren't going to be able to do it without a 650's weight, if you want better offroad manners than the current 650s offer than you aren't going to be able to do it without the current 450's maint sched. I believe the gap between a wr250r and a whatever modern 650 is much smaller than many of you perceive.


There is no doubt in my mind that given the proper care, which I don't mind doing and costs almost nothing, that my "enduro" can go the same distance as my previous two dual sports. When I buy another "adventure" bike it is going to be a bare bones KTM 6X0/450/5XX or Husky 6X0 based mainly on suspension, chassis, and transmission. In the mean time the little "enduro" bike is doing just fine and is putting up with a level of abuse which would destroy the chassis of a DR or XR or both engine and chassis of a DRZ, I know this because I've done it and I've seen it happen. YMMV and that is great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma View Post
"Since the DAKAR has gone to a 450cc maximum displacement for bikes, do you think manufacturers will release a plethora of new 450cc dual-sports?"
Although I admit, I have learned about a few manufacturers/models that I had overlooked.
I hope so, but don't think it will happen. Competition amongst manufactures is good for the consumer, if Japan produces a street legal 450 which is of the same performance level as the Eurotrash It would be on my radar as much as anything else. I hope if they do they don't go the route of the super10 and put about 100 extra lbs of useless "styling" plastic and garbage on it, that could have been a cool bike.
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VxZeroKnots screwed with this post 02-29-2012 at 10:38 PM
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:14 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llamaha View Post
Nobody is saying they're not good enough, rather that they are Enduro bikes, not Adventure bikes.
They are what you make them. Add a better seat (which you have to do to all KTM's and most dual sports anyway), maybe carry a countershaft sprocket change if you want to do long highway (I used to do that on my XT350), throw some soft luggage over the back and even add a windscreen if that is what floats your boat. Then an EXC450 or TE449 can do "adventure" just like the Japanese bikes.

No 450 is ever going to be a good around the world bike anymore than a 250 ever will be. They just don't have the power. But that is something probably less than 1% of riders would ever do anyway. When you talk smaller displacement "adventure" bikes you are talking about weekend or maybe week long bike vacations. And there is not one reason why Euro dual sports are worse at this than Japanese dual sports.

The real difference is that Euro dual sports will be much better offroad machines. So if your "adventure" ride tilts even slightly in favor of spirited offroad riding then I would argue they are the better choice. But if you idea of offroad is cruising gravel and two track roads (which isn't actually offroad anyway) then the extra performance is wasted. In that case buy a cheaper Japanese bike and use the savings to buy more gas and gear.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:33 AM   #276
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The only thing that is making most of the available Euro bikes less desirable is the maintenance intervals. We really have apple and oranges here. The Japanese bikes that are available (meaning 50-state legal) are all lower performance bikes that will run forever with little effort put into keeping them going. The 50-state Euro bikes that are for sale, are all high performance bikes that require frequent oil, filter, and even piston changes.

This isn't to say that the above maintenance only applies to the Euro bikes though. I could go down the street here, and buy a Honda CRF450X, and have it on the street right from the dealer. I've looked at the maintenance schedule, and it's not much difference than that of the KTM.

It's going to come down how much performance someone is going to want. My issue is that it probably doesn't make sense to buy a high performance bike for adv duty, only because once you pile a lot of stuff on it, windshield, bags, etc, it's really not going to be the single track monster it once was. At that point, the difference between it and a lower spec machine is probably not all that great. The real issue is just availability of 450cc machines that aren't high performance ones.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:40 AM   #277
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It comes down to what you consider "adventure" riding. I sort of like running like this; enough gear to sleep out under the stars or hole up in a cheap hotel, and enough gas to traverse big western terrain.

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Old 03-01-2012, 11:06 AM   #278
Double H
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ahhhhh, adventure riding

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Old 03-01-2012, 12:15 PM   #279
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Just read this thread and my take so far is a WRR is a lot better dual sport 50/50 than my previous DR650.
The WRR was also much better dual sport than my DRZ.
The only thing I missed from the DR650 was the torque, so after all this debate on which is the best dual sport I bought a 06 Husaberg FE450. The motor is similar to the RFS and the trans is wide ratio.
Just moving the bikes around the shop the 50lbs. lighter Hussy is very easily noticable.
Soon I will have some seat time on it and I will give my take if the Euro dualsports are any better than the WRR.
I know that Hussy 50 hp vs the WRR 25hp will have the power I miss, just hope the Hussy rides and handles as nice as the WRR. So far the build of the Hussy is a lot better than the WRR.
All the components on the Hussy are top shelf, none of the no name parts like on the WRR.
Reading all the complaints about maintanance doesn't really matter much, the only thing I can see is you should change the oil 2x as much since it holds 1/2 the oil, big deal 1 qt of oil and a filter. The valves are no big deal, easy to adjust on the Hussy, and if ridden the same as the WRR should go a long way before they move. All other maintance should be close the same. OH Yeah 2 ring piston will need rings a little sooner but if they can go 20-30-40k, whats the big deal to have 2x the power and fun of the WRR.
I know the dirt part of 50/50 goes to the Hussy, I sure hope the street part does too.
Am I missing something???
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:38 PM   #280
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What model is this?
Looking on their slow web site, only the supermoto looks street legal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcj7 View Post
Just read this thread and my take so far is a WRR is a lot better dual sport 50/50 than my previous DR650.
The WRR was also much better dual sport than my DRZ.
The only thing I missed from the DR650 was the torque, so after all this debate on which is the best dual sport I bought a 06 Husaberg FE450. The motor is similar to the RFS and the trans is wide ratio.
Just moving the bikes around the shop the 50lbs. lighter Hussy is very easily noticable.
Soon I will have some seat time on it and I will give my take if the Euro dualsports are any better than the WRR.
I know that Hussy 50 hp vs the WRR 25hp will have the power I miss, just hope the Hussy rides and handles as nice as the WRR. So far the build of the Hussy is a lot better than the WRR.
All the components on the Hussy are top shelf, none of the no name parts like on the WRR.
Reading all the complaints about maintanance doesn't really matter much, the only thing I can see is you should change the oil 2x as much since it holds 1/2 the oil, big deal 1 qt of oil and a filter. The valves are no big deal, easy to adjust on the Hussy, and if ridden the same as the WRR should go a long way before they move. All other maintance should be close the same. OH Yeah 2 ring piston will need rings a little sooner but if they can go 20-30-40k, whats the big deal to have 2x the power and fun of the WRR.
I know the dirt part of 50/50 goes to the Hussy, I sure hope the street part does too.
Am I missing something???
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #281
Grreatdog
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Husaberg, like KTM, sells the enduro models with an open MSO that can be used to get a street title in some states. I suspect that is because most of them are street legal in Europe. So it is not uncommon to find ANY model that has been made street legal. For instance the inmate I bought my LC4E now rides an FE390 that he got plated in VA.

But the factory street legal enduro model is FE570S.
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:40 PM   #282
rickcj7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
What model is this?
Looking on their slow web site, only the supermoto looks street legal.

Its the FE450E, the PO installed the factory street legal kit.
I was told to get the dirt version and install the kit, you bypass having all the emission crap and the motor isn't plugged up. I was about to get a KTM but the Hussy popped up and it was a better bike, just not as popular. Besides all my blue gear matches.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:57 PM   #283
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Eurotrash Dood here.

Read the thread from front to back. Alot of very interesting points.

First...Why would you consider a Euro 450 when the KTM 530 and Husaberg 570 are essentially the same weight as the 450s with more power? Less strain on a motor equals longer life, right?

Second...Can't believe the Bergs haven't been talked about more during this thread. I switched from orange eurotrash to blue eurotrash 3 years ago and will only now consider going back to KTM. The reasons for the switch to blue were simple...the 70 degree motor and EFI on the Berg makes for an amazingly fun and hassle free experience. Maintenance is a breeze on both the KTM and the Berg. Glad to see KTM has finally come around and decided to install the Berg EFI on their new XC-W and EXC lines for good reason this year.

You can pick up a fully street legal FE570 for @ $7400 or a 500 EXC for @9500. I'll take the lower price of the Berg, the extra cc's, and spend the extra scratch on oil cooler, tanks and a few other things to make it the ultimate lightweight Adventure bike.

Here's some proof that the Euro bikes are world travelers...Enjoy the read. http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehi...avel-bike.html
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:40 AM   #284
VxZeroKnots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel Wheeler View Post
Eurotrash Dood here.

Read the thread from front to back. Alot of very interesting points.

First...Why would you consider a Euro 450 when the KTM 530 and Husaberg 570 are essentially the same weight as the 450s with more power? Less strain on a motor equals longer life, right?

Second...Can't believe the Bergs haven't been talked about more during this thread. I switched from orange eurotrash to blue eurotrash 3 years ago and will only now consider going back to KTM. The reasons for the switch to blue were simple...the 70 degree motor and EFI on the Berg makes for an amazingly fun and hassle free experience. Maintenance is a breeze on both the KTM and the Berg. Glad to see KTM has finally come around and decided to install the Berg EFI on their new XC-W and EXC lines for good reason this year.

You can pick up a fully street legal FE570 for @ $7400 or a 500 EXC for @9500. I'll take the lower price of the Berg, the extra cc's, and spend the extra scratch on oil cooler, tanks and a few other things to make it the ultimate lightweight Adventure bike.

Here's some prove that the Euro bikes are world travelers...Enjoy the read. http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehi...avel-bike.html
Great read! thanks for sharing. I personally don't have any experience with the Bergs but that will change some day.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:55 PM   #285
No False Enthusiasm
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The KTM faithful will be happy to know that Motorcyclist new issue (May, 2012!?!) has a "First Ride" report on the new KTM 500 EXC.

PRO:
510 cc
Fuel Injection
Six speed tranny
270 lbs.

CON:
Only 2.3 gal fuel tank
Street legal dirt bike as opposed to a traveler: great in the dirt, but uncomfortable on the street.

NFE

BTW: The "pro's" and "con's" are my opinions... you are entitled to your own...
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