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Old 01-23-2012, 05:11 AM   #31
Grreatdog
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
The world may be, but the U.S. riders won't pay the price. They're stuck at KLR650/XR650L price range. The riders willing to do so already have the bike they'd buy - aka KTM450.
It does pretty much boil down to that. I have been riding AMA dual sports for over ten years and seen the shift away from Japanese dual sports. The single most common bike I see on those rides anymore is the EXC 450.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:02 AM   #32
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Yeah, I heard David Knight really liked the BMW 450 he raced ...
Thanks for pointing that out - I found an interview: http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/of...-david-knight/ which comically goes directly against the lying propaganda reviews of Motorcycle-USA when they wrote "If you were a gambling man, you'd have laid money on BMW's first-ever production enduro race bike being quirky and interesting but ultimately uncompetitive," then countered it in their 'review' http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/73/765...-X-Review.aspx

Every time I get thinking I'd want a BMW - of any type - I get to researching them and find that they never were the latest and greatest thing, and that they'd drive me to the poor-house (farther than I already am) trying to keep them working...

BMW - reliability like Italian bikes, but uglier.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:27 AM   #33
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03 KTM EXC450 with the RFS motor. I think this is one of the best bikes Ive ever owned.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:36 AM   #34
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I was checking out the TE449 at the DC show and the old BMW G450X looks pretty good in red now. The swingarm through the countershaft thing looks ridiculously complicated for the minimal benefits it provides. The bike also feels too wide at the footpegs compared to other 450 enduro bikes because of it. But at least the Husky modified version doesn't make you drop the swingarm for gearing changes like the BMW version.

The clutch on the crankshaft thing is also pretty weird looking. I have no idea how that feels or works. But, again, it makes the motor wide at the brake so the ergos seem kind of funny. It feels more porky dual sport than skinny enduro at the footpegs. Overall it seems to me like BMW invented a couple of complicated solutions to non-existent problems with that motor and frame. But otherwise it looks like a pretty sweet enduro.

IIRC, the bike magazine tests said it was a step backward from the old Husky TE450 but a step forward from the G450X. So it can't be all that bad as modified by Husky because the TE450 was a very good bike. So the BMW G450X does live on at BMW's new red headed step child company. It also looks like Husky did a good job of working with what they given in the deal.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:38 AM   #35
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The thing about the KTM 450 EXC it does well in the woods, and then you come home and it does good with supermoto tires on it. If you wanted to just do adventure type riding it would do well with that also. You can get a plate for it in any state, and you can pick up a 09 for under $5000.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dualsportride View Post
The thing about the KTM 450 EXC it does well in the woods, and then you come home and it does good with supermoto tires on it. If you wanted to just do adventure type riding it would do well with that also. You can get a plate for it in any state, and you can pick up a 09 for under $5000.
I will admit a bit of ignorance on the topic but what are the service intervals on a KTM 450 EXC? How much oil will it hold? I was always under the impression, maybe incorrectly, that the KTM's all required oil changes and valve checks far too frequently to be particularly useful as true "adventure" 450's.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:39 AM   #37
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That’s the only down side to almost all 450’s, the oil capacity. Most only hold a quart or less, KTM included. However KTM hardparts does make basically an oversize stator cover that bring it up to almost two quarts.
I do a 10min valve check every third oil change, never needed adjustment yet. On my EXC450 you need to watch the I.N side more than the E.X side. The nice thing about the RFS motor is no shim and bucket, it’s a simple screw.
It also has a WR transmission where my Husky had a close ratio transmission. It’s a world of difference on the street that no amount of regearing can compensate for.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:29 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
Seems like the world is ready for a WR450R with:

Wide ratio 6 speed
4 gal tank
Racks
Skid Plates

NFE
I don't know about the world, but I am. If Yamaha announced the release of a WR450R, I would pre-order and buy sight unseen.
The KTM horror stories about maintenance, scared me away.
Although it looks like they have made some changes for '12 with reliability in mind. http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/N...-KTM-7872.aspx
I already have a vintage bike to work on. I have been looking at the Husky, but would really prefer Japanese.

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Old 01-24-2012, 05:41 AM   #39
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I just don't get waiting for the Japanese knowing that even if Yamaha or Honda did release a 450 dual sport the motor would be "retuned for midrange", the suspension would be a generation back and it would gain at least 50 pounds over the competition model. The best the Japanese have managed to do is the WR250R and it literally weighs as much as my 640 with maybe half the power.

Meanwhile KTM builds an EXC 450 that is fast, handles great, has great brakes, is light weight, extremely rugged, adaptable and sitting at the dealer now. Don't want to pay KTM prices then buy used. I did. Husky also makes one that is pretty damned good and ready now. And having ridden with dozens of EXC's, I know for a fact that this idea of them being somehow fragile is complete nonsense.

As for maintenance remember that an EXC maintenance schedule assumes race duty. The guys I know riding them as dual sports aren't doing anymore than I ever did to my Japanese dual sport bikes. As for oil capacity, my XT350 only held 3/4 of a quart and it saw 25k miles of very hard abuse. Keep it fresh, use good oil and it doesn't matter. I change the oil in dual sports a lot anyway because I ride mostly offroad.

So keep on waiting for the Japanese if you want. I was a 23 year Yamaha dual sport rider and I certainly did for many years. But when they finally released a new dual sport it was a 300 pound 250. And I don't want ANY four stroke 250 much less one that heavy. Then I rode a couple of KTM's and the proverbial light bulb went off. I am not the least bit sorry to have tasted Koolaid. In fact, now I want more.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:52 AM   #40
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[QUOTE=tokyoklahoma;17819257] The KTM horror stories about maintenance, scared me away.
QUOTE]

They did me too.
Until I got one and realized it was all B.S.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:00 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Dave View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma View Post
The KTM horror stories about maintenance, scared me away.
They did me too.
Until I got one and realized it was all B.S.
I saw a guy in a shop, looking to buy a piston and barrel for a nearly new, lightly used KTM 4-stroke (I don't remember the model.) These parts were being discussed as routine wear items and I think the bill for just those parts (maybe gaskets too) was going to be over £600 ($1000.) I don't know about the reliability but with parts prices like that I would certainly think very carefully before purchasing a KTM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:07 AM   #42
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As is the case with most threads on this topic, the lack of well defined terms has sidetracked the discussion. Half the posters are advocating 450 D/S KTM's when the OP clearly asked for input on a 450 ADV bike.. those are two different animals. Without a doubt the 300-500 KTM's are the class leader for D/S bikes.. those bikes that can be ridden to trail in reasonable comfort and then kick ass on the single track or in the desert. However, I do not recall any ride reports on some taking their KTM 450 XC-W or EXC's from Alaska to Panama like folks regularly do on the WR-R?? I guess I want it all... a KTM 450 that will do the miles the WR-R will do, be able to carry 40-50lbs of camping gear, go 200-250 miles between fill ups, 3000 miles between oil changes, and last 50000-100000 miles... cant someone build me that bike

Of course the OP started the thread off poorly with his title wanting a 450 ADV bike and then discussing 450 D/S bikes... I would suggest those are two different bikes.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:23 AM   #43
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I dont know where you are buying parts but for my EXC 450.


KTM - PISTON CPL. 450 D=89MM SI.2 03
Item: 59430007000 II



$154.70 $154.70

Looks reasonable to me
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:27 AM   #44
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the new 500 exc (no FI 450EXC on the KTM usa website yet) has 1.5qt oil capacity, 100hr valve adjustments (non-race conditions) and oil changes every 15hr. in my mind that's weekend adv bike territory. im not sure anyone is ready to pay what it would cost to get KTM race bike with license plate performance with true adv/street bike service intervals. im not even sure you could do it?
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:50 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
Seems like the world is ready for a WR450R with:

Wide ratio 6 speed
4 gal tank
Racks
Skid Plates

NFE
I would buy one TODAY. Trade in the WR250R on the spot. Put a deposit on it sight unseen, etc.

ETA, 205'd, maybe I should read the whole thread before replying
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