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Old 01-24-2012, 02:27 PM   #46
Jan from Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartmyNx View Post
Wrong "boxer".

Boxer as-in, Bore = Stroke. Same bore as stroke.

Not a flat horizontally opposed engine like a Porsche/VW/Subaru/BMW.


An over-square engine is a "big bore"
And under-square engine has more stroke than bore... A lot of 2t's are this way...

And lastly, a square engine has the same bore as stroke.
Never heard of boxer in that context. A square, over-square and under-square are well known engineering terms. For me a "big bore" is an engine with bigger bore than it had originally. Nothing to do with bore/stroke ratio. The same goes for a "stroker". However, for unknown reason, a short-stroke is usually over-square as well as a long stroke is under-square.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:56 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastard View Post
I would buy one TODAY. Trade in the WR250R on the spot. Put a deposit on it sight unseen, etc.

ETA, 205'd, maybe I should read the whole thread before replying
No problem, I see it as positive reinforcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
the new 500 exc (no FI 450EXC on the KTM usa website yet) has 1.5qt oil capacity, 100hr valve adjustments (non-race conditions) and oil changes every 15hr. in my mind that's weekend adv bike territory. im not sure anyone is ready to pay what it would cost to get KTM race bike with license plate performance with true adv/street bike service intervals. im not even sure you could do it?
See I think that is part of the problem, race-bike performance expectations. That leads to race-bike service requirements.
And I may be wrong, but all a 450 ADV bike is, is a 450 dual sport with a strong enough frame to carry a load. Lets face it a 450 would be more of a "long weekender" than a "long way rounder" and that's exactly what I want.
IF...a KTM 450/500 EXC will do the job, and have reasonable service intervals, paying a grand (or two) premium over a WR250R (not a cheap bike for the cc) is acceptable to me. IF it does the job.

The orange coolaid crew almost has me convinced to give one a shot.

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Old 01-25-2012, 02:54 AM   #48
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KTM 450 Rally with some soft bags. Nice bike, shame about the £30,000 price tag.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:23 AM   #49
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Meanwhile, back in 1968 Honda made good use of their 450cc parallel twin motor with torsion valve springing.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:12 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma View Post
See I think that is part of the problem, race-bike performance expectations. That leads to race-bike service requirements.
And I may be wrong, but all a 450 ADV bike is, is a 450 dual sport with a strong enough frame to carry a load. Lets face it a 450 would be more of a "long weekender" than a "long way rounder" and that's exactly what I want.
IF...a KTM 450/500 EXC will do the job, and have reasonable service intervals, paying a grand (or two) premium over a WR250R (not a cheap bike for the cc) is acceptable to me. IF it does the job.

The orange coolaid crew almost has me convinced to give one a shot.
The way I see it is that everyone bitchs about current duel sports being heavy and antiquated and underpowered. See 250 R/X , DRZ400, XRL650, KLR650, ect ect ect. Their all old as shit designs except the 250 R/X and it’s still heavy, under powered, and overpriced.

So basically everyone is bitching about wanting there dual sport to be more like there dirt bike. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Not without spending a TON of money anyway. For my money and time available to go on trips I think a 500exc would fit the bill great. You could do long weekends without an oil change or valve adjustment and it would take you ANYWHERE you wanted to go. Just too bad it costs 10 grand and I’m 3in from touching the ground on it.

See this link for turning it into an adventure bike
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dmaxmike screwed with this post 01-25-2012 at 08:40 AM Reason: added paragraphs and changed my their.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:53 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
The way I see it is that everyone bitchs about current duel sports being heavy and antiquated and underpowered. See 250 R/X , DRZ400, XRL650, KLR650, ect ect ect. There all old as shit designs except the 250 R/X and itís still heavy, under powered, and overpriced.
So basically everyone is bitching about wanting there dual sport to be more like there dirt bike. You canít have your cake and eat it too. Not without spending a TON of money anyway. For my money and time available to go on trips I think a 500exc would fit the bill great. You could do long weekends without an oil change or valve adjustment and it would take you ANYWHERE you wanted to go. Just too bad it costs 10 grand and Iím 3in from touching the ground on it.
See this link for turning it into an adventure bike

I am not a spelling Nazi, but it is hard to take your posts seriously when you can't spell their correctly. There, their, they're Ö Three words, pronounced the same, different meanings, they are (or theyíre if you want) not interchangeable.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:38 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
I am not a spelling Nazi, but it is hard to take your posts seriously when you can't spell their correctly. There, their, they're Ö Three words, pronounced the same, different meanings, they are (or theyíre if you want) not interchangeable.
No worries; but no mention of my missing paragraphs that did not show up even though I had them in there. That more than the correct spelling of there, their, or they're makes reading forums hard sometimes, I should edit it.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #53
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Apparently I had a momentary stick up my ass.. now back to our regularly scheduled thread
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma View Post
.....The orange coolaid crew almost has me convinced to give one a shot.
The reason I bought my LC4E was that I rode a friend's SXC and could not believe that KTM managed to build a bike that fast, that well suspended and that light weight ten years ago. So I bought one. Now I have a 50+ horsepower dual sport that is all day comfortable, able to carry a load, has top shelf suspension and God's own brakes all wrapped up in a package that weighs within five pounds of a WR250R.

So my twelve year old bike is WAY faster, better suspended, has way better braking and is still about the same weight as the current cream of the Japanese dual sport crop. These days you can get an EXC 450 or 500 that weighs 250 pounds, is crazy fast and 50 state street legal. Or if you need adventure bike range the 690 that is still only 313 pounds and seriously outperforms all of the Japanese 650's on power, weight and suspension.

So, yes, I drink the the orange Koolaid. But that is because orange really does taste better than red, green, yellow and blue Koolaid. Waiting for a WR450R just makes zero sense to me whan you can buy excellent 50 state legal dual sports right now from 350cc up to 690cc. I quit asking why the Japanese are sitting on the sidelines of dual sport technology and went with orange team. Hopefully a plated EXC300 or maybe a 350 will follow me home next.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:06 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
Apparently I had a momentary stick up my ass.. now back to our regularly scheduled thread
Good call.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:25 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Dave View Post
That’s the only down side to almost all 450’s, the oil capacity. Most only hold a quart or less, KTM included. However KTM hardparts does make basically an oversize stator cover that bring it up to almost two quarts.
I do a 10min valve check every third oil change, never needed adjustment yet. On my EXC450 you need to watch the I.N side more than the E.X side. The nice thing about the RFS motor is no shim and bucket, it’s a simple screw.
It also has a WR transmission where my Husky had a close ratio transmission. It’s a world of difference on the street that no amount of regearing can compensate for.

On my KLX I check the valves every three or four years and change oil about every 5000 miles. I can't remember the last time I changed out a shim now. Can't remember the last time the manual cam chain tensioner had to be adjusted. It's only been 45,000 miles and going for more. I may not make the horsepower of a KTM, but I don't have to screw around with my bike as often. That's the one factor I like. If it was off road, it would be different. On the road I wanted reliability, it was my street bike and commuter.

Japanese dual sports are detuned. Nature of the beast when it comes to what they feel the customer base needs. Most Japanese bike riders don't expect to have to mess with valves very often, most want to ride it and park it and ride it and park it. With the Japanese product, you can do that. No excuses, just the facts.

One friend went to the KTM450 dual sport for more dirt riding and power, but after living with it for a year or so he went to a DRz400S. It was easier to live with, he just didn't have the time to deal with the KTM.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:26 PM   #57
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The thing is, if you really ride offroad you have to "mess" with the bike after every ride anyway. Wash the bike, clean the air filter, check spokes and bolts, fix flats, repair chash damage, etc. My last dual sport ride featured three hard crashes along with the shifter and speedometer cable sheared off by rocks, four sprocket bolts gone, a shredded tire, bent handlebars and a fuel hose torn off. All of which was not especially uncommon.

Obviously if your idea of the offroad portion of dual sport riding is a somewhat more casual approach to trail riding then you can put afford to put the bike away wet. But that just isn't happening in my world. Even my low tech XT's and XL required maintenance after pretty much every offroad foray. So I think it is the way we ride offroad that separates orange team fans from other dual sport riders. I expect to have to work on any bike all the time.

Sometimes you don't even make it back to the garage.

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Old 01-25-2012, 08:40 PM   #58
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Question one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
The reason I bought my LC4E was that I rode a friend's SXC and could not believe that KTM managed to build a bike that fast, that well suspended and that light weight ten years ago. So I bought one. Now I have a 50+ horsepower dual sport that is all day comfortable, able to carry a load, has top shelf suspension and God's own brakes all wrapped up in a package that weighs within five pounds of a WR250R.

So my twelve year old bike is WAY faster, better suspended, has way better braking and is still about the same weight as the current cream of the Japanese dual sport crop. These days you can get an EXC 450 or 500 that weighs 250 pounds, is crazy fast and 50 state street legal. Or if you need adventure bike range the 690 that is still only 313 pounds and seriously outperforms all of the Japanese 650's on power, weight and suspension.

So, yes, I drink the the orange Koolaid. But that is because orange really does taste better than red, green, yellow and blue Koolaid. Waiting for a WR450R just makes zero sense to me whan you can buy excellent 50 state legal dual sports right now from 350cc up to 690cc. I quit asking why the Japanese are sitting on the sidelines of dual sport technology and went with orange team. Hopefully a plated EXC300 or maybe a 350 will follow me home next.
This post is VERY helpful. The only exposure I have had to KTM is from acquaintances that ride motocross, and everybody who races spends a lot of time wrenching.
One question, and you can color me convinced.
In that 12 years of dual-sport riding, how many engine rebuilds have you done? Or has it just been routine maintenance, and fixing trail damage.

Our local Yamaha dealer is also our local KTM dealer, so no problem finding a bike.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:35 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
On my KLX I check the valves every three or four years and change oil about every 5000 miles. I can't remember the last time I changed out a shim now. Can't remember the last time the manual cam chain tensioner had to be adjusted. It's only been 45,000 miles and going for more. I may not make the horsepower of a KTM, but I don't have to screw around with my bike as often. That's the one factor I like. If it was off road, it would be different. On the road I wanted reliability, it was my street bike and commuter.

Japanese dual sports are detuned. Nature of the beast when it comes to what they feel the customer base needs. Most Japanese bike riders don't expect to have to mess with valves very often, most want to ride it and park it and ride it and park it. With the Japanese product, you can do that. No excuses, just the facts.

One friend went to the KTM450 dual sport for more dirt riding and power, but after living with it for a year or so he went to a DRz400S. It was easier to live with, he just didn't have the time to deal with the KTM.


I check my DR650 and DRZ400 just as often as I do the KTM. Itís just the way I Ďam about my bikes.
The DR and DRZ are rock solid but in no way can they be compared to KTM. Both are overweight and under powered in comparison.
As stated above if you ride off road you are going to do more preventative maintenance than if you donít, just the way it is.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:36 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma View Post
This post is VERY helpful. The only exposure I have had to KTM is from acquaintances that ride motocross, and everybody who races spends a lot of time wrenching.
One question, and you can color me convinced.
In that 12 years of dual-sport riding, how many engine rebuilds have you done? Or has it just been routine maintenance, and fixing trail damage.

Our local Yamaha dealer is also our local KTM dealer, so no problem finding a bike.
What struck me as "funny" about his post was...
I was thinking to myself that if I had a 12 yr old Bike (with the mileage I've always put on them) the damn thing would have roughly 120,000 miles on it by now.
Only reason I mention the above is because we're talking about (or at least I thought we were?) Adventure bikes that see lots of miles every year and since KTM miles are measured in hours (kind of like Dog years) well; I was also wondering how many rebuilds his KTM has gone through.
F.W.I.W. I also see a distinct difference between a dualsport and and ADV bike, in how they're used.

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