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Old 01-27-2012, 10:16 AM   #76
No False Enthusiasm
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I'm not as hard corps as many of the folks here...

I'm thinking of a bike that could travel 400-500 miles on secondary roads as opposed to interstates.

Then spend a day seeing (parts of) Big Bend National Park, etc.

Then ride 400-500 miles home on those same secondary roads.

I don't have the time or talent to wrench a KTM.

The mythical WR450R, with 4 gallons, 6 sp wide ratio, fuel injection, racks and plates would be fun.

What real world bike would match this mission?

NFE
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:24 AM   #77
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KLR with the accessory milk crate?
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #78
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Sounds about right to me. I wouldn't want to do a 500 mile day on any 450 single. Now I have done 500 mile weekends from a camp on everything from 125 two strokes to my 640. That is a different ball game.

But for rolling up those kinds of combination highway and trail miles in a day I would want at least 600 cc's under my butt. A a fly screen to cut the wind off my chest would also be nice. So, yes, a KLR kind of works in that scenario.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:02 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally quoted by lemieuxmc:

KLR with the accessory milk crate?
Quote:
Originally quoted by Grreatdog:
So, yes, a KLR kind of works in that scenario.
I don't think I could take the hazing from WW...

Sounds like a fuel injected KLR with a wide ratio 6spd...

Or a DR 650 with fuel injection and wide ratio 6spd...

This thread needed a little humor...

NFE

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:46 PM   #80
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Cool2 that's odd

As odd and unusual as it sounds, I think we mostly agree on what a "lost weekender" should be.
Granted I would shorten the 500m two lane asphalt to and fro, to 100-200m, because there is shit-loads of riding that close to my home. And I would rather spend the time in the dirt, than droning along the asphalt.

I'm 50 and have a 34" inseam, so a good suspension means more to me than having 5-10 extra horsepower. A modern 450 should have enough grunt to do the job, no need to have it tuned to the "hand grenade with a spark-plug" point that increases maintenance.
And I'm busted-up enough that light is good, but not at the detriment of durability.

But we agree enough that the premiss seams to have some merit, we just haven't decided if a current bike fits the bill.
Or have we?
As a "child of the 60s" I have fond memories of Husqvarna, and the KTM 450/500 EXC has been proclaimed suitable. So maybe the Europeans time HAS come again.

tokyoklahoma screwed with this post 01-27-2012 at 01:48 PM Reason: clarity
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:02 PM   #81
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I pretty much agree. I would be OK with any of the Japanese 450 enduro bikes made into a dual sport as long as they didn't add the usual tonnage and switch to crap price point suspension. Weight and suspension are actually about 90% off what drove me to the orange team.

No 25 horsepower 250 is ever going to make me happy no matter how good the bike is. So I am solidly in the 450+ camp. But I would buy something like a WR450R if it kept the competition bike suspension and weight but was detuned a little. And I do mean a little.

There is still that 10% of me that digs monster roost.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:09 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
I pretty much agree. I would be OK with any of the Japanese 450 enduro bikes made into a dual sport as long as they didn't add the usual tonnage and switch to crap price point suspension. Weight and suspension are actually about 90% off what drove me to the orange team.

No 25 horsepower 250 is ever going to make me happy no matter how good the bike is. So I am solidly in the 450+ camp. But I would buy something like a WR450R if it kept the competition bike suspension and weight but was detuned a little. And I do mean a little.

There is still that 10% of me that digs monster roost.
The problem is the extra tonage is what makes the bike keep from breaking frame parts, blowing up engines, and other durability issues along with keeping the cost down low enough where the rider will buy it.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
Seriously folks there is no such thing as a Duel Sport/Adventure bike. There are Duel Sport bikes, of which KTM is clearly the king, although there are some real nice Husabergs, Betas and Huskies that are starting to give them some competition. In my mind a D/S bike is street legal, tarmac capable to ride between trail sections or for a couple of hours to get to a trail head. In most cases with the right set up you should be able to pull off weekend camping trips if you use lightweight gear.

Then there are Adventure bikes, the 650-1200 bikes that can go 3-6k miles between oil changes and have a proven track record of bikes with 50-100k miles on the engines without needing a new top end. I think KTM has a bike in that game as well with the 690R?? There is not a 450/500cc bike currently capable of this without some serious compromise.

I am now going to make an assumption based on the original post and the title of this thread. What the OP is wondering is if the transition to 450s in the Dakar will usher in a new series of 450cc bikes capable of true adventure riding. There are several ride reports of DRZ's going around the world so the concept is achievable. Of course the DRZ has a couple of real issues, the 5 speed gearbox, and the power to weight ratio.

I think what people are dreaming about is a KTM 450/500 with 3 quarts of oil, a top end that will go 50k miles, a rear subframe that will hold 35-40lbs of gear, and still come in under 300lbs. I will take less performance than the current line up of KTMs offer in trade off for the other characteristics. I think this is why people lust after the mythical WR450R or the DRZ 450 with 6 gears and FI.

This mythical bike may be unobtanium, but I don’t think so. At 44 years and not getting any younger, I am still athletic enough and strong enough to run a bike hard in the single track, but I know that I do not have the talent, nor will I ever, to run a current KTM 450/500 at its top end.

Bigdog has shown that the Wr250r is capable of true adventure touring with hard dirt section thrown in. Still the 300lb Wr250r seems a bit underpowered. Someone now give us that same capability in a 450/500 and bring it in under 300lbs. Give me a detuned KTM that will go 50k miles on a top end and 3-6k miles on an oil change, and why you are at it give me 250 miles of range. I will keep dreaming until this bike exists.. it does not right now.
Take your DRz, put in a big bore, carb, and pipe then add a big gas tank to it, take the money you save over some Euro bike to do something else, and you have what you wish for. You, like many, don't want to believe it. Seems a bunch of KLX250 riders are having a blast on the 350 big bore kitted bikes, light with some additional power while retaining the light weight. No reason why it can't be done on the DRz. It just won't be orange and won't require as much maintenance.

Heck, Kevin Schwantz won one of the National Supermoto races on a modified DRz400 back in 2003 or 2004.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:24 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Take your DRz, put in a big bore, carb, and pipe then add a big gas tank to it, take the money you save over some Euro bike to do something else, and you have what you wish for. You, like many, don't want to believe it. Seems a bunch of KLX250 riders are having a blast on the 350 big bore kitted bikes, light with some additional power while retaining the light weight. No reason why it can't be done on the DRz. It just won't be orange and won't require as much maintenance.

Heck, Kevin Schwantz won one of the National Supermoto races on a modified DRz400 back in 2003 or 2004.
Dam you and your logic.. I want a new bike
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
The problem is the extra tonage is what makes the bike keep from breaking frame parts, blowing up engines, and other durability issues along with keeping the cost down low enough where the rider will buy it.
I have to disagree with you there.

Let's look at KTM. They have steel frames and aluminum subframes and swingarms just like most Japanese dual sports. Yet they still come in at 250ish pounds. On top of that they have top shelf bars, pegs, chains, sprockets, etc. that can take real abuse. What makes them light weight is money. Those kinds of parts are expensive.

For some reason people think competition bikes are somehow fragile. But the exact opposite is true. Both Japanese and European enduro and offroad bikes are built to take horrible abuse and keep going. You ride one like a dual sport and you will likely never break anything. Stengthening a subframe to carry a load might add a few pounds.

But it sure doesn't add the 50 to 75 pounds Japanese dual sports pack on. There is no way a WR250R is more heavy duty than my LC4 yet they weigh almost the same. What makes Japanese dual sports heavy is being built to a price point. They are using Reagan era engines and frames with suspension maybe one generation newer.

But then what makes those Japanese dual sports heavy is also what makes them so cheap. If you build say a WR450R and detune the motor for longevity it is going to be tough, light and very capable. But it is also going to cost $9000. Which is, oddly enough, about what you pay for a KTM 450. Coincidence?
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:18 PM   #86
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Im just really curious. You find the 510 easier to trail ride than a 200EXC? I had an 04 Husky 450 and that thing would hit like a Jap two stroke with a tight transmission.
My 450EXC is much smoother, more linear power.

But Im now in the market for a KTM 2t 200-300 for a trail/ woods bike. All I keep hearing about is how great these 2t are in the woods. What about your 200 didnt you like?

Thank you

I may have worded that wrong. I liked the 200 exc just fine, rode/raced it for 5 yrs. I highly recommend one.
When I stopped racing, I was after a single track friendly dual sport bike.
Went in search of a KTM 525 rfs. Found the husky first.

Bought the 510 thinking it might be a handful in the really tight stuff and have been pleasantly surprised. I honestly believe I can do as well on it as I could on the 200 especially in the rocks. I'm older now and like the 4 st, tractor-like power delivery. The 200, while a great lightweight bike, I seem to remember as being a bit "nervous" handling, for lack of a better word.

Your experience with a husky 450 was not unlike mine which led me to believe the 510 would be even more radical. But it's actually easier for me to ride, more linear power delivery. I think it's a bore x stroke thing, oversquare-undersquare I dunno, one of the gearheads can explain it bettern me.

As to the KTM 450, I'll admit that the only one I've ridden was an 06 model that was tuned for a local hot shoe racer. That thing was more than I wanted to handle as a permanent ride but it sure was a hoot to take a spin on.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #87
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Thumb Good Price

It looks like Husqvarna is selling new 2011 TE 449s for $6599. That's a lot of bike for the money.
http://heroesridehuskys.com/pages/11promo_mcy3.html
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:48 AM   #88
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That is almost the exact same MSRP of a XR650L. The TE might have some BMW engineering funk going on, but it is a hell of a capable dual sport. The gas cap might hit you in the ass off a jump or through whoops. But at least it can do those things like an enduro.
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:35 AM   #89
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One thing to consider, the husky/ktm 510/530 class bikes are for a lot of folks, a little easier to ride. The power comes on a bit less violently and on top you have just a little longer legs.
The huskys also have a low resale value which is good if you're buying used.
I am an old, fat short guy and the 510 works real well for me. I wont lie it's a chore to pick it back up after dropping it with the wheels uphill half a dozen times.
Real weight, fueled and ready to go is 288 lbs.
Oil change intervals are stated as M/X 8 hrs, Enduro 16 hrs, dual sport 5000 km.
I just turned over 200 hrs and the valves have yet to measure out of spec.
I have a $100 shim kit with not a single shim used.
I bought this bike as a combo trail/dual sport bike. It has been far easier to ride single track with than I imagined it would be.
Prior bike was a 200 exc.
I too am fond of the orange but there are other colors too.
Yes, but tell the truth about the 28mpg fuel mileage and lack of available REALLY big tanks to make this bike have the range of a DRZ400 (55-60 mpg). These bikes are not viable out West for sure as they will not go 90 miles on a full tank of gas! That is a killler even if they perform well and are light. They are loop or racing machines only unless you live in a landscape full of gas stations.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:06 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma View Post
It looks like Husqvarna is selling new 2011 TE 449s for $6599. That's a lot of bike for the money.
http://heroesridehuskys.com/pages/11promo_mcy3.html
I came real close to buying one of these a couple weeks ago... you can find them cheaper than that price if you look.. small in frame tank, requires a new exhaust right out the door and a computer, and the real deal breaker was the close ratio gear box. This is a dirt bike with blinkers and a horn.. East Coast D/S sure thing.. ADV bike not at all... west coast/desert bike.. better have some fuel and a different final drive ratio.
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