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Old 01-21-2012, 05:38 PM   #1
Creation OP
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Need some help with the fantic clutch

How do I setup this clutch? I have never done a hydraulic and there is no bleed nipple? Its a Fantic K-Roo and im stumped, haha

This is the cylinder attached to the engine, the hydraulic line attaches to right bolt hole.

This has a rubber cap that pushes on

Heres the lever...


Any help is appreciated of course.. I dont even know where to start.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:29 AM   #2
lineaway
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Be carefull some kroo`s used mineral oil even though the cap said dot4. Seemed 93 was the year that it started. You would just bleed a little from the bottom bolt and tighten. Then just a lot of pumping if I remember right. And yes I had too split the motor after using brake fluid, and replace a case seal and bearing. What a waste of time for something to be marked wrong.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:57 PM   #3
Creation OP
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did the clutch wrong 4 times now... i dunno what im doing or how to do it or... yeah anyway... i dunno

runs tho, started it up, blipped the throttle and wheelied on my ass..
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:47 AM   #4
lineaway
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Are you sure the clutch plates are not just stuck from sitting too long. A lot of bikes need to be ridden around with the clutch lever in using the brakes and/ or trying a wheelie to get the plates to brake loose. Just make sure where you are pointed and have plenty of room. Careful ,when it does break loose it could set you over the bars.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:41 PM   #5
Creation OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Are you sure the clutch plates are not just stuck from sitting too long. A lot of bikes need to be ridden around with the clutch lever in using the brakes and/ or trying a wheelie to get the plates to brake loose. Just make sure where you are pointed and have plenty of room. Careful ,when it does break loose it could set you over the bars.

Yeah I tried that for bout 30min. I honestly don't know how to even setup the clutch.. I just put mineral oil in the cylinder and the reservoir, and sealed it up after pumping the lever 20 times. Barely any at all pressure at the handle after that.

Lost all lights last night? Not sure what's up with that....
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:53 AM   #6
Sting32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creation View Post
Yeah I tried that for bout 30min. I honestly don't know how to even setup the clutch.. I just put mineral oil in the cylinder and the reservoir, and sealed it up after pumping the lever 20 times. Barely any at all pressure at the handle after that.

Lost all lights last night? Not sure what's up with that....
You have to bleed clutch just like you have to bleed brakes. Usually I do what i call reverse bleed, where I have a syringe (brake tool, you can buy) that I slip a small amount of hose on the end, Start with tank at lever being EMPTY, then loosen the bleed nipple at slave cylinder, push the fluid carefully (without air bubbles of course) until resivore at the lever has some oil back in it. works on many bikes and applications, some better than others. I have discovered baldy adjusted levers and other things when you cant push fluid to master.

Why it wont push, or even pump up sometimes:

then when you are doing bleeding, no mater which technique, I cannot stress enough that there has to be "SOME" free play on the lever or what have you that pushes the plunger on the master cylinder. Sometimes just gunky fluids can block this orfice, so reverse bleeding can help blow that hole out, I guess. Dirt where the plunger is and lever pushes on it, can stop the plunger short of "at rest" as well.

Important expanding on master cylinder plunger and free play PLUS it has to fully extend to at rest...
Well when plunger is 100% at it's completely relaxed position, there is a (tiny one in trials bikes) orfice that is uncovered on any mater cylinder, which allows more fluid in, or out of the pressure line to the slave cylinder. when fluid gets hot it expands back into tank, this is why tank is not filled 100% full to allow some expansion. If you try to bleed like we used to do cars, ALA have someone pump lever, hold pressure, bleed at slave cyliner, this is time consuming and again, if you dont have the plunger exposing the orfice that allows another gulp of fluid, you will get NOWHERE doing it this way.

I have had to force backwards, and follow up with "normal" bleed process (pump, hold, bleed nipple drain: repeat) having clear hose on nipple when doing this also helps you see if there is AIR or not.
Due to how some brake calipers seem to work over the year...

gasgas clutches seem easy, I have had several years of these, and helped others with other brands of bikes... But, other than cars brakes and clutch stuff, and sporatic cycles, that is all I know.
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:30 PM   #7
lineaway
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It`s not impossible to bleed as the guy on trials central said. What year are have you got? Is the fluid going somewhwere or just not pumping up . Did you lay the bike on it`s side and fill up what you could before you connected the line. And you want the line completely full when you conect the line also. If you are losing oil but can`t see where it is going then somebody might have contaminated your system with brake fluid. Let us know what you have done.
Bob R.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:37 AM   #8
Creation OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
It`s not impossible to bleed as the guy on trials central said. What year are have you got? Is the fluid going somewhwere or just not pumping up . Did you lay the bike on it`s side and fill up what you could before you connected the line. And you want the line completely full when you conect the line also. If you are losing oil but can`t see where it is going then somebody might have contaminated your system with brake fluid. Let us know what you have done.
Bob R.

My clutch line is shot, after being able to back bleed it, many pumps and a large syringe I got it to where no bubbles came on, hooked it up rode it, and then lost the clutch... It's shot where the line meets the master cylinder. Nobody I called has a replacement and thanks to the straight banjo bolt, I can't use any of the ktm lines that use this setup..... It's been a bad day and after all these months just for this to happen...... Ughhhhhhhhh


So now I'm looking for a hydraulic line with a straight banjo bolt and on the other end a m1 fine thread end.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:00 AM   #9
Twin-shocker
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It should be pretty easy for a shop who makes stainless braided brake lines, to make a line using your original part as a pattern.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:27 AM   #10
Sting32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creation View Post
My clutch line is shot, after being able to back bleed it, many pumps and a large syringe I got it to where no bubbles came on, hooked it up rode it, and then lost the clutch... It's shot where the line meets the master cylinder. Nobody I called has a replacement and thanks to the straight banjo bolt, I can't use any of the ktm lines that use this setup..... It's been a bad day and after all these months just for this to happen...... Ughhhhhhhhh


So now I'm looking for a hydraulic line with a straight banjo bolt and on the other end a m1 fine thread end.
The Tryals Shoppe can get parts, if they exist for Fantics. http://www.tryalsshop.com/

might find that older gasgas clutch hose might work? Id need a picture, at BOTH banjo fittings, to do more than speculate that though? you might just need to get the 2 brass or is it copper washer the gasgas maybe others use? maybe that is what is missing? Get us a picture, the 2 you posted didnt show the lines. Uuuugh, oopsie, I never saw that one with master cylinder though, until right now... picture of other end though might help us figure out, but IMHO call that tryals shoppe, he'll have some kind of answer for you I am sure.
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:45 PM   #11
Creation OP
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Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
The Tryals Shoppe can get parts, if they exist for Fantics. http://www.tryalsshop.com/

might find that older gasgas clutch hose might work? Id need a picture, at BOTH banjo fittings, to do more than speculate that though? you might just need to get the 2 brass or is it copper washer the gasgas maybe others use? maybe that is what is missing? Get us a picture, the 2 you posted didnt show the lines. Uuuugh, oopsie, I never saw that one with master cylinder though, until right now... picture of other end though might help us figure out, but IMHO call that tryals shoppe, he'll have some kind of answer for you I am sure.
Mike told me good luck, haha he has none in stock. Here's some pics;

This part the clutch line threads into the master cylinder, it broke also;


This part threads into the above part and is part of the line.


This part is the other side that connects to slave cylinder.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:12 PM   #12
lineaway
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I`d try a bicycle shop for the line.It was a magura set up originally. Even the brochure showed a bicycle type master cylinder, then they went back to the ajp. Magura sells a wide range of repair kits. Biggest thing would be the correct size line for your fittings. So which broke, the fitting or the line?
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:28 PM   #13
Sting32
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Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
I`d try a bicycle shop for the line.It was a magura set up originally. Even the brochure showed a bicycle type master cylinder, then they went back to the ajp. Magura sells a wide range of repair kits. Biggest thing would be the correct size line for your fittings. So which broke, the fitting or the line?
Realistically, finding a regular AJP master cylinder, from anything, like an old gasgas, would make it so he had standard hose fittins at both ends ya know with older TXT bikes they had banjo fitting at both ends, that hose is just like the rest of us do now boltd directly kinda too master cylinder, then banjo at bottom to slave...

then finding long enough hose, from say older gasgas or montessa et all, would be the trick? THIS is Of Course, IMHO just a guess. I mean I ended up with an 05 Pro, that someone bought near me, that someone had used what apeared to be a I dunno, some other make's (montessa or scorpa sherco?) clutch line (bigger hose, it was longer, everything was just wrong about it but it did work... but seems isn't to say I could be completely wrong? It just seems to me that banjo's COULD be a common size). Since the line was longer than needed, so somoene had creatively routed excess through the frame under the tank, then down to banjo fitting, so I would think you could find a hose if you had a standard connected at both ends?

there are occasionally people that have junked/scrap bikes, like on ebay, or club members here ? I dont have any junk bikes yet, for the era with hydraulic lines, though. People do though, I bet just hard to find...

Edit1
I know I dented the hell out of a clutch or front brake line. But I dont have the one I took off, but there are others that might have one for same reason...

Edit;2
After studying if all the issues are at master cylinder, you could do 3 salvage type things... that fitting is a reducer, probably pipe fitting style, going to be hard to find in USA (maybe) since it is PROBABLY metric... But not necessarily. Air lines, and or hydraulic pressure (you know like people that rebuild Hydraulic systems for even dump trucks, might have some foreign parts, or know how for weld or med that fitting? I would have somone try to braze that where it leaks, (it appears to me and I am guessing that it broke/leaks right at where the NUT shaped part in the center is?) since most of the threads could be wrapped with PFT tape so it gets tight before the brazed area hast to thread, you might get away with it for a while? Banjo fittins usually have some type of crush?

edit4 removed reference to banjo, since you did state (missed it) that only master cylinder part/reducer/fitting is the problem... good, I think you can make a fix, then you will need to find fantic parts someone in the UK will have parts, I thinkg...

Sting32 screwed with this post 01-30-2012 at 07:57 PM
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:00 PM   #14
lineaway
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Bike shop is easier and most cost effective. But you are right Sting a mineral type gas gas master cylinder and pro clutch line might work if it is long enough.I`m not sure if the lower banjo would be the right size. I carry a spare gasgas line and it sure looks close.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:18 PM   #15
Sting32
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Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Bike shop is easier and most cost effective. But you are right Sting a mineral type gas gas master cylinder and pro clutch line might work if it is long enough.I`m not sure if the lower banjo would be the right size. I carry a spare gasgas line and it sure looks close.
Ya could be right for sure lineaway, around me, there isnt much for cycle shops for several hundred miles, but being in Agriculture based area, the little city near me has a hydraulic repair shop.

Newere lawnmowers especailly ZTR types are hydraulic based nowdays, they might have fittings or reducers where handl bar controls might be outsourced, but then again, on some of our hydraulic equipment we just have the different sized ends fitted on hoses that traverse from point to point instead of a bunch of reducers, but ya never know.

Bike shop near me still never (he's even a friend of mine) gotten them ferrils so I can hook my magura's back on my Monty... dang kid, jumps off bike rips hoses off handlebars... you know how hard them SOB's are to bleed (original Magura brakes on 80's or is it 90's original Monty?)...
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