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Old 02-20-2013, 10:23 AM   #5791
frecks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
I thought the most common gun on the PzIII was the derp gun? Yes, it has terrible accuracy, but it's a howitzer - so IIRC, use HE rounds?

It's a much more aggressive play style, and one that requires the talent that medium tank drivers of higher tiers should have (but seem to rarely have anymore) to get past and behind an enemy, or to circle-strafe them, but it should be more than effective with gold rounds I'd think. I don't think that using the PzIII as a sniping platform is the correct way of using it, but then I haven't played it forever, and I bet they've changed it. Maybe it doesn't even have a derp gun anymore.
The 10,5 cm 42 L/28 is the derp gun that the Hetzer, PzKpfw IV, VK2801, and Stug III have. No Howitzer on the PzKpfw III, but you're probably thinking of the PzKpfw IV, which is pretty devastating with gold rounds through the Howitzer.

The PzKpfw III's largest gun is the 7,5 cm 37 L/24. It has an accuracy of .55. That's terrible. I'm using the 5 cm 39 L/60, which has an accuracy of .4 and actually has a better dpm than the 7,5 cm 37 L/24.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:36 AM   #5792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frecks View Post
The 10,5 cm 42 L/28 is the derp gun that the Hetzer, PzKpfw IV, VK2801, and Stug III have. No Howitzer on the PzKpfw III, but you're probably thinking of the PzKpfw IV, which is pretty devastating with gold rounds through the Howitzer.

The PzKpfw III's largest gun is the 7,5 cm 37 L/24. It has an accuracy of .55. That's terrible. I'm using the 5 cm 39 L/60, which has an accuracy of .4 and actually has a better dpm than the 7,5 cm 37 L/24.
No, I'm thinking of that really short and fat barrel on the PzIII - that's still tecnically a howitzer, I think, but it's not of the famed size you are referencing. I think it may very well be the 7.5, and it seems you are misunderstanding the weapon; it's for really close use. But then the PzIII is built around that weapon, and it has the agaility and the speed to use it in the hands of people who aren't trying to snipe with a medium tank. That's my opinion, but in this day of seeing mediums rush up to still confront heavies and other tanks face to face in cities anyway, I think the point may be a lost one.

Trust me, it is no coincidence that the TOP gun on a given tank has that bad accuracy. Complaining about it means one is using it, or understanding it, wrong. My guess is that such players would be better off in the other option (if I understand it correctly) if that's the way they look at tanking - the Lee if it's available.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:19 AM   #5793
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I never realized before that the tanks involved in Tiananmen Square were Type 59s.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:35 AM   #5794
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So all I need to stop a platoon of type 59's is a Chinese guy with a backpack?
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:38 AM   #5795
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You guys should look at this one.....a Chaffee replay I came across on the WoT forums yesterday.

http://mwreplays.com/replay/0NIOLADYMT6M/

7938 xp including a daily double.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:42 AM   #5796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
No, I'm thinking of that really short and fat barrel on the PzIII - that's still tecnically a howitzer, I think, but it's not of the famed size you are referencing. I think it may very well be the 7.5, and it seems you are misunderstanding the weapon; it's for really close use. But then the PzIII is built around that weapon, and it has the agaility and the speed to use it in the hands of people who aren't trying to snipe with a medium tank. That's my opinion, but in this day of seeing mediums rush up to still confront heavies and other tanks face to face in cities anyway, I think the point may be a lost one.

Trust me, it is no coincidence that the TOP gun on a given tank has that bad accuracy. Complaining about it means one is using it, or understanding it, wrong. My guess is that such players would be better off in the other option (if I understand it correctly) if that's the way they look at tanking - the Lee if it's available.
I have a real problem looking at it as in history. The long 50 came in the desert war and just killed everything execpt matilda...the british just did not have anything that would hit as hard as the long 50. The Matilda only really had the 2 pounder and it was quite week against the III. It was not till the Grant came along that the british got HE and a gun that would hit harder.

My problem is that the PzIII just has the short end of the stick....even in tanks of its tier it has problems in the game. I have penned tier 6 tanks with the matilda, but the III just has no real hope. They have bounced it around in a scout mode and it just does not work there.

I would be happy if they gave it the same punch as the 40 on the matilda had lighter armor, and a little more speed....they could even slow it down a bit if the gun would do something.

I have tried playing the tank in just about every way possible...I just had no luck with it....I do however LOVE Matilda.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:53 AM   #5797
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So you all have heard be bloviating about the upcoming Brit TDs. Well, I have one more composition for ya all, then I will let it be.

From tier 6 to 9, the play-tactics for these vehicles will be essentially the same. This line distinguishes itself from other TDs in four ways. First, all these are lumbering vehicles with a max speed of 20 kph and a traverse speed right at 20 deg/sec. Second, the weapons are extraordinarily accurate; <0.33 accuracy simply doesn't exist for any other sub-tier-10 vehicle, yet every one of these TDs at 0.32 or less. Third, these vehicles are armored all around - the tried mantra, "Shoot the sides," simply is not sufficient here. And the fourth and final point, the gun arc (typically in the 10 to 12 degree range) for these vehicles is exceptional at 25-30 degrees, meaning that it is quite feasible to angle the vehicle while taking shots.



Behold, the AT-8 tier 6 tank destroyer. By shooting at a 25 degree angle, this vehicle will repel fire from any tier 6 heavy tank, while firing back with a gun that is substantially superior to both the Russian D-2-5T and the German 7,5cm L/70.

The casual observer will classify this vehicle in the same group as the T95, but by tier 9 they differentiate themselves significantly. Most significantly: horsepower (10hp/ton vs 5hp/ton) and traverse (16 deg/s vs 22 deg/s).



To compare the Tortoise with the T95 and it's ~300mm of frontal armor, I would point out that at 45 degrees, this vehicle's has 275mm of armor on both the front and sides, and it is fast enough to scoot in and out of this position while firing.

Also, the armament more closely mirrors that of the AMX 50 Foch tank destroyer. The gun is high pen, fast firing, quick aiming, and very accurate. It currently has superior hard stats at every point; I would assume that some or all of those stats will be nerfed to the level of the French vehicles.

OK, I'm done blathering about Brits for a while.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:56 AM   #5798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
No, I'm thinking of that really short and fat barrel on the PzIII - that's still tecnically a howitzer, I think, but it's not of the famed size you are referencing. I think it may very well be the 7.5, and it seems you are misunderstanding the weapon; it's for really close use. But then the PzIII is built around that weapon, and it has the agaility and the speed to use it in the hands of people who aren't trying to snipe with a medium tank. That's my opinion, but in this day of seeing mediums rush up to still confront heavies and other tanks face to face in cities anyway, I think the point may be a lost one.

Trust me, it is no coincidence that the TOP gun on a given tank has that bad accuracy. Complaining about it means one is using it, or understanding it, wrong. My guess is that such players would be better off in the other option (if I understand it correctly) if that's the way they look at tanking - the Lee if it's available.
Disclaimer: I've only played 4 battles in the PZIII. They have been with the 5 cm and I dominated every battle, but that's still a very small amount of playtime, so I'm speaking here from a numbers/theoretical standpoint and this may not reflect the actual best way to play this tank.

Comparing the guns:
5 cm KwK 39 L/60
rpm: 24
pen: 67/130/25
dmg: 70/70/90
acc: .4m
aim: 2.3sec
weight: 700kg
dpm: 1680/1680/2160

7,5 cm KwK 37 L/24
rpm: 14
pen: 43/100/38
dmg: 110/110/175
acc: .55m
aim: 2.3sec
weight: 780kg
dpm: 1540/1540/2450

So with HE rounds, the 7.5 does much more damage, but may have trouble penetrating a lot of opponents from the front unless it hits square on. It's heavier, slower to reload, and has much worse accuracy. On the other hand, it only takes 2 (sometimes 1) solid penetrations to take out any tier 3.

I hadn't originally realized that the HE rounds had a higher dpm on the 7.5 so maybe I should give that a try. But I feel like the reliable penetration, better chance of actually hitting an opponent, and quicker reload with the 5 cm might be better suited for eliminating players quickly.

Truth be told, the Lee probably would be better suited for my playstyle. But I had a crew at 50% camo for the PzIII and I don't for the Lee. I also seem to hear everyone say that they hate the Lee. Why is that?

Cool to see that you're active on AR15 forum. Small world.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:04 PM   #5799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frecks View Post
7,5 cm KwK 37 L/24
dmg: 110/110/175
dpm: 1540/1540/2450

I hadn't originally realized that the HE rounds had a higher dpm on the 7.5 so maybe I should give that a try. But I feel like the reliable penetration, better chance of actually hitting an opponent, and quicker reload with the 5 cm might be better suited for eliminating players quickly.
Without penetrations, against 30-50mm armor, you would expect around 44 damage per shot, because math. Unless you can exceed a 50% penetration ratio with HE, you will get better results by firing AP.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:33 PM   #5800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frecks View Post
Disclaimer: I've only played 4 battles in the PZIII. They have been with the 5 cm and I dominated every battle, but that's still a very small amount of playtime, so I'm speaking here from a numbers/theoretical standpoint and this may not reflect the actual best way to play this tank.

Comparing the guns:
5 cm KwK 39 L/60
rpm: 24
pen: 67/130/25
dmg: 70/70/90
acc: .4m
aim: 2.3sec
weight: 700kg
dpm: 1680/1680/2160

7,5 cm KwK 37 L/24
rpm: 14
pen: 43/100/38
dmg: 110/110/175
acc: .55m
aim: 2.3sec
weight: 780kg
dpm: 1540/1540/2450

So with HE rounds, the 7.5 does much more damage, but may have trouble penetrating a lot of opponents from the front unless it hits square on. It's heavier, slower to reload, and has much worse accuracy. On the other hand, it only takes 2 (sometimes 1) solid penetrations to take out any tier 3.

I hadn't originally realized that the HE rounds had a higher dpm on the 7.5 so maybe I should give that a try. But I feel like the reliable penetration, better chance of actually hitting an opponent, and quicker reload with the 5 cm might be better suited for eliminating players quickly.

Truth be told, the Lee probably would be better suited for my playstyle. But I had a crew at 50% camo for the PzIII and I don't for the Lee. I also seem to hear everyone say that they hate the Lee. Why is that?

Cool to see that you're active on AR15 forum. Small world.
I actually like the lee....its problem is it is quite tall, and the sides are easy to pen. I think when people try to play it like a heavy tank with a big gun is when people get in trouble....you have to hide and play it like a TD, then after things settle down you can go out and pick up the left overs.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #5801
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Have been getting a boatload of botting the past few days.

Really gets annoying.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:22 PM   #5802
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Well.... Today I learned a valuable lesson...

If you are in a IS-6 and you have a Maus coming towards you... RUN!!! The only place an IS-6 can pen a Maus is in the magic button on the back of the turret. that is not a fight I want to be any part of.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:37 PM   #5803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frecks View Post
Disclaimer: I've only played 4 battles in the PZIII. They have been with the 5 cm and I dominated every battle, but that's still a very small amount of playtime, so I'm speaking here from a numbers/theoretical standpoint and this may not reflect the actual best way to play this tank.

Comparing the guns:
5 cm KwK 39 L/60
rpm: 24
pen: 67/130/25
dmg: 70/70/90
acc: .4m
aim: 2.3sec
weight: 700kg
dpm: 1680/1680/2160

7,5 cm KwK 37 L/24
rpm: 14
pen: 43/100/38
dmg: 110/110/175
acc: .55m
aim: 2.3sec
weight: 780kg
dpm: 1540/1540/2450

So with HE rounds, the 7.5 does much more damage, but may have trouble penetrating a lot of opponents from the front unless it hits square on. It's heavier, slower to reload, and has much worse accuracy. On the other hand, it only takes 2 (sometimes 1) solid penetrations to take out any tier 3.

I hadn't originally realized that the HE rounds had a higher dpm on the 7.5 so maybe I should give that a try. But I feel like the reliable penetration, better chance of actually hitting an opponent, and quicker reload with the 5 cm might be better suited for eliminating players quickly.

Truth be told, the Lee probably would be better suited for my playstyle. But I had a crew at 50% camo for the PzIII and I don't for the Lee. I also seem to hear everyone say that they hate the Lee. Why is that?

Cool to see that you're active on AR15 forum. Small world.
take this one step further. a bison has 120 hp, if you have average damage shots and they are all hits, how long will it take to kill with both guns?
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #5804
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I love when people talk smack at the beginning of a round about you driving a Tog...







and this is the way the round turns out...

I didn't have to move far, they came in one at a time, and they didn't stay long as they died fairly quickly...
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #5805
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Quote:
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Matt almost hit someone this round!




Thanks for the fun platooning and helpful hints!!!
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