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Old 02-10-2012, 10:52 AM   #166
scooteraug02
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Maybe fixing the FD problem is not just a mechanical or engineering problem but an ego problem. The engineer who designed the final drive maybe insisting his design is perfect and better than anyone else could engineer.

Internal politics and egos may be holding up a heavy duty fix to the problem. Maybe it isn't a problem for BMW until a certain number of failures occur. If you or a loved one died from taking a prescription drug it is a big deal but to the pharmaceutical company they can kill quite a few more before it is an issue to them. It's probably the same for BMW.

They are probably saying those fat Americans are the problem not our superior engineering and design.
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by me109g4 View Post
I have never had a bike with a final drive,, seems like way to much engineering and moving parts to do what a simple chain and gear does and without all the drama. I can see no good reason for final drive set up but am willing to listen,, educate me. JT
I am not an engineer, so I do not feel qualified to educate you in that regard. I was hoping Anton would chime in but suspect Anton has not intervened due to the fact I know I have seen him explain this multiple times in several different forums. He probably gets tired of it. Bearings have to distribute weight evenly across the load bearing area to maintain a max life. In the BMW FD, shims can be employed to correct out of spec tolerances to promote even load distribution. If you have ever manufactured anything, you know that tooling has a finite life and with use comes wear and descrepencies in tolerance. For example. I build rifles from time to time. A chamber reamer new cuts a tighter chamber the first better than the 500 time. (actually a lot less to headspace properly) Same can be said for tooling the manufactures any mechanical device. Ideally, something built with new tooling should have tighter tolerances than something built after the 1000th unit.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:15 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by darrendeep6 View Post
Man, I get your point. Here is mine; you are a previous owner that is coming across like someone with an ax to grind with BMW or current satisfied owners. This is a BMW GS specific forum. This thread has a few previous owners, some current Tenere riders not provivding anything constructive other than I had one, it sucked, now I ride(insert brand here). I have laid my hands on a Tenere, I'm not impressed. Especially the costly heated grip controller that hangs off the left handlebar mounted on flimsy plastic tabs. I haven't ridden it yet so i am reserving judgement. However, Im not on the Tenere forum slinging mud at the owners trying to get them to capitulate and admit their heat controller is expensive, begs to get ripped off and is flimsily designed, constructed and mounted. Why you ask? I can appreciate all motorcycles and if you choose to ride a Yamaha, good on ya. Go ride and quit trolling in my forum, its nauseating.
This is a thread on final drive failures. I related what happened to me and my bike.

If you read my posts I said that in fact my Yamaha was not perfect. No gloating there. I said that BMW made nice motorcycles. No trolling there. I told BIGDAVEGS that I was happy that he has had extremely good luck with his GS. No shit stirring there. What exactly nauseated you?
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:28 PM   #169
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This is a thread on final drive failures. I related what happened to me and my bike.

If you read my posts I said that in fact my Yamaha was not perfect. No gloating there. I said that BMW made nice motorcycles. No trolling there. I told BIGDAVEGS that I was happy that he has had extremely good luck with his GS. No shit stirring there. What exactly nauseated you?
scottie, the beemerphiles on here find ANYTHING uncomplimentary to their chosen brand as "nauseating". They respond with name calling and claims of exclusive ownership of this thread & Gspot. The tyrannical urge is evident. It's the most politicall correct thread I've ever seen. Sensitivity measured in megatonnes. Kinda fun tho. I am interested in the non-bs discussion of the problem the thread addresses,tho.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:40 PM   #170
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:44 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roarin calhoun View Post
scottie, the beemerphiles on here find ANYTHING uncomplimentary to their chosen brand as "nauseating". They respond with name calling and claims of exclusive ownership of this thread & Gspot. The tyrannical urge is evident. It's the most politicall correct thread I've ever seen. Sensitivity measured in megatonnes. Kinda fun tho. I am interested in the non-bs discussion of the problem the thread addresses,tho.
"Beemerphiles"...................Good one. All I think is most of the perceived final drive problems are from incorrect data that is over exaggerated and blown out of proportion by folks that just read the rants of other uneducated and uninformed idiots. BMW final drives do fail, no question about that, but not near the proportions that a lot of people seem to think. I bet if you got true hard facts, with the total amount of final drive BMW bikes produced world wide, the failure rate would be far less than .01%.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
But, again, if you no longer have an interest in BMW, why come to G-spot to stir the pot? Smacks strongly of trolling to me!

It's apparent you have no idea how many Beemerphiles/Propeller Heads come over to Tenere threads and slag, frag, and bag the Yamaha all day long. Maybe it's a central European thing, because the Orange Crush Bunch with KTM's are pretty flagrant bashers, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roarin calhoun View Post
scottie, the beemerphiles on here find ANYTHING uncomplimentary to their chosen brand as "nauseating". They respond with name calling and claims of exclusive ownership of this thread & Gspot. The tyrannical urge is evident. It's the most politicall correct thread I've ever seen. Sensitivity measured in megatonnes. Kinda fun tho. I am interested in the non-bs discussion of the problem the thread addresses,tho.

Amen, Roarin!, Amen!

It is funny, how this is a thread about failed Beemer final drives, and yet the Roundel Rangers get real defensive about it. They don't have a problem slagging other brands, but don't say a word about 'Ze Bavarian 'Vonder 'Rad!!!

I've repeatedly said I had no problem with my BMW, and that I loved owning it... But that's overlooked. I've never said any other brand was perfect, nor even necessarily better than a BMW... All I've said was that other brands seem to have fewer reported final drive issues... But that's overlooked.

Seems it's OK to insult former BMW owners on this thread without compunction, but heaven forbid anyone even question there may be any sort of real problem with a German mechanical object!

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Old 02-10-2012, 02:06 PM   #173
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Isn't the weather in Tejas nice enuff to riding
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #174
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Isn't the weather in Tejas nice enuff to riding

Yup!

Been riding almost every single day this year.

Unfortunately some days I get tied to a desk and the phone, damn it!!!

And it's been that way almost this entire week.

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Old 02-10-2012, 02:11 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
It is funny, how this is a thread about failed Beemer final drives, and yet the Roundel Rangers get real defensive about it. They don't have a problem slagging other brands, but don't say a word about 'Ze Bavarian 'Vonder 'Rad!!!

I've repeatedly said I had no problem with my BMW, and that I loved owning it... But that's overlooked. I've never said any other brand was perfect, nor even necessarily better than a BMW... All I've said was that other brands seem to have fewer reported final drive issues... But that's overlooked.

Seems it's OK to insult former BMW owners on this thread without compunction, but heaven forbid anyone even question there may be any sort of real problem with a German mechanical object!

Dallara~
The one thing you will never find me doing is bashing another persons bike. It's what ever make that person happy. You will never catch me on a scooter, but I know a few people that ride them. I will ride with anyone no matter what the side of their bike says, and be smiling all the way. I just want everyone to stand together for the sport of motorcycle riding. If my final drive fails while I'm riding with you, please ride up ahead and call the number I gave you so I can get my bike home and fix it. We will ride together again after it's fixed.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:13 PM   #176
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by bigdave-gs View Post
I bet if you got true hard facts, with the total amount of final drive BMW bikes produced world wide, the failure rate would be far less than .01%.
Hold on....

Over 5 years...

625,672 * 0.001 = 625 failed with 1 drive 67.2% along the path to failure....

He or she should be along shortly.

Well I am glad we cleared that up..

The other set of stats...
"bmw final drive failure"
1,160,000 results (0.24 seconds)

"Goldwing final drive failure -BMW" (cleaning out the "my bloody BMW posts)
About 56,600 results (0.17 seconds)

VMAX final drive failure -BMW
About 83,500 results (0.19 seconds)

and then there is this old darling..


Most this stuff came onto the my radar when I was looking for a second hand GS VS a new V-Strom (about the same price where I live, with 80,00Km on the GS Vs 0on the Suk), I would have preferred the GS.

Two things I noticed, 60-80,000Km was a really popular sale point for BMW GS/A. While actively looking for examples I got to know and bumped into a few people with these bikes, including a nice policeman riding a R1200RTP who charged me a few bucks for a roadside chat. He rode with a pool of 12 RTP's

What seemed to piss him off the most was the "top up the petrol, fill the oil" thing with the R bikes. He put numbers on it and said it was just a bit of a joke around the joint. So that was cool. He just thought it was a bit of a pain. I don't care, that's what they do.

I asked him what he owned and he said an FJR and an SV650 (wife). Why not the BMW?

Um nice enough bike, great weather protection, but the shafts fall apart way too soon, about 40,000Km problems start. Then we trade them.

I called BS on that one, because that's when most Gov vehicles are traded. He said "you've been warned".

They like saying that don't they? I didn't push it any further. he still had the ticket book out.

So that's what started the research. So my conclusion in the end was that they needed to be maintained well. I would have to do it myself, because it seemed that the dealers were not doing something right, and that a few unhappy campers were not familiar with the signs and the dealer was not doing the job.

Many owners bought the bike on "reputation" and expected a shaft to be like the drive line in a car. IE engine / gearbox fail about the same time.

So, As far as I could tell the shaft would probably be OK if it was well maintained.. Fair enough.

But then, a few incidents like a completely snapped shaft housings (mostly GS/ A), Electronic bit and pieces and pretty average standard shocks.
So I decided to wait until they had fessed up, done a few fixes, pin pointed the problem and did a redesign.

Then the "winner of the recall race in Europe" popped up.

So while the bike is a fine thing, it seems the issues will not be addressed unless it hurts the company financially.
It isn't, so I expect nothing will be done and it will be pot luck whether you get a Monday bike or a Rest of the week bike.

But this is what I find pretty consistent over the years.

A "prestige marque" will be sold continuously in good numbers while they are they only game in town, They will have rusted on devotees whatever the problems, there is always those that have a sense of pride in riding an expensive bike and that ads to the experience.

A BMW will feel like a BMW and that will work for some people, and some don't give a toss.

I have seen this with Ducati, Harley, Alpha (yes the cars), Triumph over the years, BUT once things become the but of jokes, it's not going to go away anytime soon.

Anyone seen Standard AirCon on a Goldwing?

BMW should just address this, fess up to the numbers pin point the "problem" and fix it or at least let the potential buyer know what the clever shaft drive system is going to cost on average over the years. Maybe just put a formal "200,000Km Warranty" on the thing (with relevant service history checks). Maybe just beef the thing up and add some weight. BIG deal.

They still have the Charlie and Ewen re-runs going and many "midlife crises" buyers out there. Something that poor old KTM don't. (it's their stupid fault, they had the chance they blew it)

The boxer has been a great seller over the years and despite BMW trying to kill it off, it's been a great motor for the company.

They survived the 80's and have come back from the brink. Maybe they just need to sit down and take a deep breath and do a bit of work on the rear instead of tweaking the Boxer one more time.

I don't think BMW is going to go away anytime soon and the comparative prices they charge do vary from country to country. When reading that someone was pissed off, just check how much they paid over an equivalent bike.

I think they are interesting bikes, just as Ducati and Triumph, YAMAHA and KAWASAKI are interesting bikes. They all do their bit to give us a choice.

But to me BMW is a badge stuck on a range of bikes, made in various countries around the world, sourced from bits and pieces around the world and are just another brand.

Nothing special, just BMW. They have a history, so does every other manufacturer out there if you check and at the moment, they may want to pay a bit more attention to some issues they may be having. Sometimes that is not fair, sometimes it is. All brands cop it for different reasons.
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GrahamD screwed with this post 02-10-2012 at 04:00 PM
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Shoganai View Post
I asked on a K11 forum if anyone had ever heard of a K11 Fd failure of the nature that seems to have raised such a stink and no one had. Again, not talking seal failure which is wear item. What does that mean?


One more thought, do you think the role played by the Internet over magnified a small rare problem or did it link together the scattered victims therefor shining a light on a larger problem?
The earlier monolever is a good example. The problems didn't really start showing up until the paralever and it appears the 1150 series.

So far as frequency of failure, as I referenced earlier, at the dealer we probably averaged one a week for the three years I was there. That's in a market with about six dealers in a 100 mile radius.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:20 PM   #178
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:21 PM   #179
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156 Really
Yes, really.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:23 PM   #180
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Have any idea on the numbers of the other 5 dealers
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