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Old 02-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #181
A-Wind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave-gs View Post
...All I think is most of the perceived final drive problems are from incorrect data that is over exaggerated and blown out of proportion by folks that just read the rants of other uneducated and uninformed idiots. BMW final drives do fail, no question about that, but not near the proportions that a lot of people seem to think. I bet if you got true hard facts, with the total amount of final drive BMW bikes produced world wide, the failure rate would be far less than .01%...
That is exactly the point. Components of Final Drives fail occasionally on nearly every type of application at some point, unless of course if perhaps grossly oversized, which in bikes would equal to a loss of performance.

Personally, just like inmate ICEBOX mentioned on Page 10 of this thread (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=151), I would also rather enjoy the unsprung weight benefits of a lighter and compact design, instead of dealing with some cheap bulky and antiquated solution.

The question is if you rather ride with the wolves or the sheeps.

A-Wind screwed with this post 02-10-2012 at 04:09 PM Reason: a bit more friendly is better
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:33 PM   #182
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Cool2 Anything's fair in BMW's defense, right?

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Originally Posted by A-Wind View Post
Normally I'm against name calling, but I think this one was 100% justified and unfortunately long over due.

The question is if you rather ride with the wolves or the sheeps
.


Interesting viewpoint...

Oh, and just out of curiosity, exactly what level of mechanical training, education, and expertise do you need to have to participate in these threads?

Me, I do all my own mechanical work, and I'll be happy to compare wrenching, riding, and racing resumes with you if that's a requirement...

But I'm just wondering what credentials one needs to have in order to venture onto "G-Spot" and discuss the mechanical virtues and/or warts of BMW's...

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Old 02-10-2012, 02:48 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by bigdave-gs View Post
. I bet if you got true hard facts, with the total amount of final drive BMW bikes produced world wide, the failure rate would be far less than .01%.
Bigdave - that would be GREAT if BMW would release the true facts. Maybe that will be one thing to come out of this investigation. If it really is only a .01% failure rate, I think most people would regard that as good to excellent. BMW should not be so embarrassed about releasing the numbers. So why don't they?

I know few if any manufacturers will talk about their failures, so that's probably why. But I think it's more potentially damaging to go through an NHTSA investigation, than to admit that one bike in every 1000 had a final drive failure. But if it was one in 100 (or more)... maybe you wouldn't say anything unless you were forced to?
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:58 PM   #184
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http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...e-fire-hazard/
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:00 PM   #185
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Suzuki is recalling almost 1,400 of its 2012 AN400, AN650 and DL650 two-wheelers because their brake light may not function properly. The manufacturer told N.H.T.S.A. that a faulty switch may be the cause of the brake light not illuminating, and in some cases could keep the bike from being restarted. Suzuki said the problem was first reported in Japan, but the manufacturer did not have any reports of failures from customers or dealers the United States.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by svennoly View Post
Suzuki is recalling almost 1,400 of its 2012 AN400, AN650 and DL650 two-wheelers because their brake light may not function properly. The manufacturer told N.H.T.S.A. that a faulty switch may be the cause of the brake light not illuminating, and in some cases could keep the bike from being restarted. Suzuki said the problem was first reported in Japan, but the manufacturer did not have any reports of failures from customers or dealers the United States.
Recalling? Boy, I bet the owners are pissed because of the cost of the repair. Wait, it's a recall.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:10 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by A-Wind View Post
Normally I'm against name calling, but I think this one was 100% justified and unfortunately long over due.


At the same time TECHNICAL OPINIONS OF TROLLS, who otherwise proudly discuss having their bikes SERVICED AT DEALERSHIPS, carry for me NO weight what so ever anyway.

The question is if you rather ride with the wolves or the sheeps.
This is hilarious.He's against name calling but calls folks"trolls' & "sheeps"(lambs better?.jus askin). You need technical expertise to post here? You sure don't inorder to BUY a BMW.They'll take your GOBS of money & won't even offer you a (German) beer. I have little such expertise & don't want any.I just like to pound rocks & dirt. Wrenches suk. Never needed'em with jap bikes.Just pounded rocks to my heart's content.Not with the GS,I didn't. Busted often. Somebody early in this thread mentioned OTHER GS problems that could be investigated,like servo brakes. Mine were junk. After several screwups(one dangerous) in dirt, a BMW mechanic finally showed me one(there were other) cause---a tiny joint under the rear brake lever that got dirt in it & made the brakes malfunction. I said duct tape oughtta fix that....for awhile. He agreed. That make me a "German engineer"? Since it was already mentioned in this thread by somebody else, what about that? This GS really a "dirt" bike? jus wundereds,allz.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by dcstrom View Post
Bigdave - that would be GREAT if BMW would release the true facts. Maybe that will be one thing to come out of this investigation. If it really is only a .01% failure rate, I think most people would regard that as good to excellent. BMW should not be so embarrassed about releasing the numbers. So why don't they?

I know few if any manufacturers will talk about their failures, so that's probably why. But I think it's more potentially damaging to go through an NHTSA investigation, than to admit that one bike in every 1000 had a final drive failure. But if it was one in 100 (or more)... maybe you wouldn't say anything unless you were forced to?

I dought the NHTSA will get involved because the final drive failure usually doesn't result in a catastrophic event, ie. injury or death. Usually the rider feels the rear of the bike wobble or other handling problems, checks the rear end and see's oil coming out or when servicing the bike finds metal on the magnet of the final drive plug. I think GrahamD said that in the last 5 years there have been 625000+ units built by BMW with final drives world wide, and if .01% had final drive problems then 6250 bikes had some sort of final drive issue.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:19 PM   #189
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Recalling? Boy, I bet the owners are pissed because of the cost of the repair. Wait, it's a recall.
Might be a little pissed to be rear-ended on the freeway :}
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:26 PM   #190
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Cool2 6 vs 145... Hmmmmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by svennoly View Post

Thought this part of the link you posted was interesting...


Quote:
"The agency said it had received SIX consumer complaints as well as several reports from Toyota about fires in the driver’s door. Investigators said the condition appeared to be caused by a malfunction of the master switch that controls the power windows."

Hmmmmmm... The NHTSA is investigating the Toyota models because of SIX complaints out of 830,000 cars from just one year - 2007...

And there has been at least 145 consumer complaints for BMW motorcycle final drives over 10 years... Or an average of 14.5 per year, right?

That is an interesting comparison...

Guess it doesn't take that much to perhaps get a complete recall for just a few failures, eh?

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Old 02-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by svennoly View Post
Recalling? Boy, I bet the owners are pissed because of the cost of the repair. Wait, it's a recall.
Might be a little pissed to be rear-ended on the freeway :}
You don't remember BMW's recall to add a banjo bolt with a check valve in the front brake control circuit of the R1200 twins and transverse four cylinders? Not service bulletin, recall. It wasn't for the brake light, it was for brake function. I still have a bunch of the non-check valve banjo bolts removed from the bikes. Here
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:33 PM   #192
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Yeah when it said 6 complaints i was confused?
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:42 PM   #193
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Facts

V65 Sabre, 200,000 miles, no FD failure, no other major component failure. Oil change 2000 miles, everything else by the book. Honda brand supplies.

Really wanted to explore gravel roads and light off road. The GSPD caught my eye. I didn't buy till the R1150 GSA. Now that was the bike built for me and my kind of riding.

Oil changes 3000 miles, early on everything else (trans, FD, etc), BMW brand fluids. I'm 250 lbs, typically carry 150 lbs gear when touring.

#1 FD Crown bearing failed on return from AK (nothing gnarly) 56K miles, podunk Montana. Closest dealer 400 miles (wrong direction). BMW Roadside Assistance would pay first 100 miles towing, thanks but no thanks. No trucks (or vehicles available to rent within the same 400 mile radius.

Purchased 1981 GMC pickup to haul the bike home... $1500
Cost to repair FD (out of warranty more than 35K miles)... $500
The feeling that "now I know how many miles I can get out of my FD"... priceless.

#2 FD Pinion bearing failed at night on Interstate 35, 70K miles. Felt like flat tire, but was able to ride home, no fluid loss. Haul bike to shop 150 miles, FD repaired under warranty, (previous repair warrantied for 2 years). No off road since last failure.

#3 FD Crown bearing failed, side of the road Gunflint Trail northern MN, 84K miles. Call friend (that purchased GMC above) to come get me and the bike. 250 miles to dealer. FD repaired under warranty, less than two years from last repair. No off road since last failure. Crease in gas tank, bike fell over while loading in truck.

Heading to AK, take bike in for thorough service, especially check FD. "All is good". I really like this bike, so install Ohlins shocks front and rear, after all it's a BMW and show easily go as far as the Jap bike... right? Purchase spare bearing and seal to keep in the panniers.

#4 FD crown bearing failed, 91K, Canadian Rockies, 150 miles SW of Calgary, end of 2nd day out on the way to AK (Friday evening). Can't seem to get a ride to town or find vehicle. Heck I've seen this done a few times now, lets give it a whirl. Change out bearing and seal in campground and manage to rendezvous, as planned, with riding partners in Hyder. Travel 8500 miles and return home, so far so good.

Tell dealer "something must be wrong" I should be able to go further on a final drive than a front tire!! BMW replaces entire differential, under warranty. The drive shaft has a small tight spot in one place, should be replaced, my nickle $750 for part, NC labor.

Finally, the FD problem is solved.

600 miles later, preparing to go to TN to ride, checking bike, rear wheel 1/4" play side to side. Appears to be pivot bearing for rear diff. Haul bike to dealer, 150 miles, tapered bearings installed backwards at factory. Dealer installs new set correctly, NC.

Plan on taking a trip to UT this past summer. Take the bike in for service, "check it over". Due for it's second spline lube and as long as your there check the clutch and replace if needed ($1000 plus rest of service). "Cam chain is a little lose, but we never see any problems with that". Good to go.

Bryce Canyon, half way through the 2 week trip, loud knocking on left side, suspect cam chain adjuster, not recommended to ride, weekend, Salt Lake closest dealer, trip over. Rent U-haul $500 to Denver, ship home to dealer from there $600. Cam chain slider on left side broke and dropped into motor, cases need to be split, replace all the bits both sides "as long as where there". $2600. Without accessories the bikes worth $4-5K? What next? Transmission? ABS?

Can I take that Tenere for a spin? Nice bike. "You'll give me $1300 in trade after the repairs? Including all my accessories? SOLD!!

Identical BMW in shop at same time as mine, almost the same mileage, 108K, no final drive issues, or anything else. Go figure.

Another guy I know, same bike, 3 FD failures, traded for KLR.

The good news for BMW is there seems to be a steady supply of new buyers headed their way. Never fear. I won't be one of them. I enjoy riding too much. When I go on a motorcycle trip I want to do it on a motorcycle, not in a truck with a motorcycle in the back...

My experience. YMMV

There used to be a site that recorded failures, http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/, but it's not working any more. I have never reported to NHTSA.
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #194
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I have never had a bike with a final drive,, seems like way to much engineering and moving parts to do what a simple chain and gear does and without all the drama. I can see no good reason for final drive set up but am willing to listen,, educate me. JT
Check the Cannonshot threads and listen to my tale when I say that chains and sprockets can meet a very quick and untimely demise should you find yourself running a lot of dirt/sand in the rain. And when you find yourself north of Cordner Lake in Northern Ontario on a bad chain/sprocket because of such situations, you'll understand completely.

Not to mention, the vast majority of final drives don't fail. And when they lose a big bearing and seal, it's usually south of 300 USD to repair.

And that happened to me at 64,000 miles. How many chains/sprockets would I have gone through by now? My repair was 250 USD.

Complicated-- new sprockets/chains every 15/20K or less in my case.

Uncomplicated-- doing sweet fuck-all, never carrying chain lube, and not adjusting my chain one single time in 64,000 miles. Now go find some threads where people have blasted holes in their cases with a broken chain.

Fix that in Northern Ontario.

I'm not going to martyr myself for final drives, I know they have problems. But I see the point.


One day BMW will make an even more robust FD and we'll all be sad we can't sit around and fling poo at one another, I reckon.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:04 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Interesting viewpoint...

Oh, and just out of curiosity, exactly what level of mechanical training, education, and expertise do you need to have to participate in these threads?

Me, I do all my own mechanical work, and I'll be happy to compare wrenching, riding, and racing resumes with you if that's a requirement...

But I'm just wondering what credentials one needs to have in order to venture onto "G-Spot" and discuss the mechanical virtues and/or warts of BMW's...

Dallara



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Dallara,

If it's not too much trouble and you can manage the time, would you please fuck straight off out of this thread?

Go haunt some other brand's forum before this ends up in Jo momma, you gormy troll, you.


Thank you in advance.
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