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Old 01-15-2014, 01:54 AM   #1
biggdan OP
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Mounting hardware

Where do you guys go?
I realise for most their hardware came with the hack but I'm looking for some mounts to mount to the bike frame
£50 a time seems expensive when I need 4
I was looking at 1 1/4 frame clamps and then figured frame jig clamps had enough meat on them, but they'd be really ugly mounts
Although aesthetically only 2 would be in view.
Anybody have any ideas or really good pics on the mounts to the bike frame. Must be removable else I'd just weld the eyes on
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:08 AM   #2
warkshop
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Weld on eyes especially when you obviously have the ability would make the most sense, definitely achieves that job one of rigidity. 4 frame clamps is a poor way to mount a sidecar, period. Noticing that your boy is still quite young i would hazard a guess he might like to ride with Dad for quite a few years and hence the more permanent mounts could/should make sense? If you must do bolt ons try and make them bracket assemblies or subframes that bolt on many places to both spread the load and give the needed stiffness.

Again, i'd vote for weld ons. Try and re-think this bike/outfit as a package that would live that way and down the road be sold that way. I know, everyone needs a solo bike,,,,get a smaller, cheaper (that you can afford) for that. I've had an awful lot of fun on bikes that others wouldn't take a second look at,,,it is about the ride after all. Oh, and worst case,,,,way down the road, you could cut the sidecar mounts off the bike frame, grind /smooth the steel and touch up the paint.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:43 AM   #3
biggdan OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warkshop View Post
Weld on eyes especially when you obviously have the ability would make the most sense, definitely achieves that job one of rigidity. 4 frame clamps is a poor way to mount a sidecar, period. Noticing that your boy is still quite young i would hazard a guess he might like to ride with Dad for quite a few years and hence the more permanent mounts could/should make sense? If you must do bolt ons try and make them bracket assemblies or subframes that bolt on many places to both spread the load and give the needed stiffness.

Again, i'd vote for weld ons. Try and re-think this bike/outfit as a package that would live that way and down the road be sold that way. I know, everyone needs a solo bike,,,,get a smaller, cheaper (that you can afford) for that. I've had an awful lot of fun on bikes that others wouldn't take a second look at,,,it is about the ride after all. Oh, and worst case,,,,way down the road, you could cut the sidecar mounts off the bike frame, grind /smooth the steel and touch up the paint.
The bottom two I don't mind welding to the frame, but the upper two I'd like removable if possible, though to be fair the front one will be his behind the oilcooler so no reason that couldn't be welded but that requires a long arm to bring it out. The top rear one will be just behind the seat and so I'd like that one removable at the very least
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggdan View Post
The bottom two I don't mind welding to the frame, but the upper two I'd like removable if possible, though to be fair the front one will be his behind the oilcooler so no reason that couldn't be welded but that requires a long arm to bring it out. The top rear one will be just behind the seat and so I'd like that one removable at the very least



Nothing in the rules that says you can't make a new link with a dogleg in it so that it reaches in to the mount.

The rear one you could mount under the seat.

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Old 01-15-2014, 07:08 AM   #5
biggdan OP
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hadnt thought of that- the simplest ideas always come to me last

i was just thinking, in the little box of parts are two eyes that are threaded, i wonder if drilling holes through the frame rail to weld in lengths of threaded tube, then grinding flush.... the eyes could just be screwed in
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:33 AM   #6
jaydmc
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In general we find weld on mounts to be a poor idea, More often then not people weld them on wrong and over time the frames tend to fail right next to the weld. On the very rare times when we do weld to the frame we run the welds in line with the frame tubes (never around) and TIG weld the mounts in place. We just had to do one like this for the first time in several years on a KTM990 as they way the fuel tanks are made this was the best way to make the upper front mount. Many people when they do weld on mounts put tabs for the mounts, this does not allow for rotation of the struts should you wish to change wheel lead at all. If you do weld, go with mounts for eye bolts that then bolt on. We like to use as few frame clamps as possible and when we do use them we like to use them in such a way that they are not trying to resist a twisting motion. We do make frame clamps $90 for clamps that fit up to 1 1/4 inch tube and $110 for up to 1 1/2 inch tube. In general we like to go with sub frames that pick up existing bolts on the bike at several locations. This also allows us to move the mounts further apart then the frame would otherwise allow. It also allows us to build the mounts such that the lower mounts are the same distance from the ground as if the lower rear is higher then the lower front when you fine tune your lean out to adjust for a pull when the lower rear is higher then the lower front it moves your toe setting the wrong way making it had to find the sweet spot where every thing works well. We make many different mounting kits in both left and right side mount. Remember, your life and others depends on how well your sidecar is attached, your riding enjoyment also depends on how well the sidecar is attached as if it is constantly moving around it will not be fun to ride. So safety should be the first concern, price the second.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:04 AM   #7
biggdan OP
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do weld, dont weld


ive had a closer look at the box of bolts that came with the car
from what i can work out, and ive no idea what it was hooked upto before, but these were the two upper mounts

and here the square one has a bushed linkage for the bottom front mount and the long arm with bush was the lower rear


the rest seem to be just random bolts and bits of metal
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:47 AM   #8
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Used to be mounted to a 350 Jawa. Those are the factory pieces for that. I suppose this would be a good time, though i don't doubt i'll be ignored, to mention that a Velorex is tad light duty for your fire breathing chop.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:31 PM   #9
biggdan OP
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i can add a little weight to it - the new wheel will weigh double that skinny thing on there now, ill be adding some bracing, so weight of that tube - ok not big increase but i guess if i find the car lifting then i can add weight further.

couple sandbags in the luggage compartment
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:58 AM   #10
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Please note, i said 'light duty',,,not light weight. People always mix that up. My meaning is that the size of the frame tubing, the wall thickness of the frame tubing and the fact it has a 15mm axle mean it is a more light duty sidecar. Your bike with it's power is able to exert some pretty high stress forces on the sidecar chassis. You, as a very long list folks before you will say " i can beef it up!" or "i already have it,,it was cheap!". Well yes you can weld lumps on it you but i'd say by the time you make everything strong enough and do all the re-engineering you would be better off with a meatier sidecar in the first place,,,logic, all that. Or since you were capable of building the bike (you did build the frame, right?) then simply build your own sidecar frame.
Or, being in the UK if you could find one of those beautiful Heddinghams,,,?One of them would look 'the business' on your chop. I'd vote to save up some pounds sterling, sell on the Velo and get a Heddingham, awesome build quality, great engineering and pretty.
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:39 AM   #11
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No I didn't buikd the frame.
I think the chassis will be fine personally? I'm not doubting anything, as I've said before I'm new to everything sidecar but from an engineering stand, it's well constructed for its purpose. I'm not dragging it down the strip it simply has to carry my son which again I'm not gonna be giving the bike masses of throttle.
The only real reason I ended up with the velorex is the price I got it. I haven't the cash for new or fancy outfits. But for what I want this one for I'm positive it us more than upto the job
I do appreciate the info though so please don't take that as me being defensive and ignoring advice because it isn't. And if it has to be reinforced then it will be :)
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:53 AM   #12
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As with all things mechanical it is all about purpose. If you intend to be gentle then all should be well. I would suggest since you are about do fair serious rework to 'drop' the hack you should consider going to a larger axle. As long as you rig it darn good and rigid and check all your hardware for tightness frequently you should be fine. Most folks who end up with broken/failed sidecar bits are not mechanically inclined and just drive their outfits till they break. Then they are all about blaming the hack. Maintenance is crucial in the sidecar world. One loose mount pushes stress downstream to the next mount and on till something breaks or the whole mess collapses.
Guess this all gets back to how i feel the invention of the electric start and foot shift began the downward spiral of this hobby. Once non mechanical folk could ride them then any twit could buy/ride a bike,,,and my how they have!
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:40 AM   #13
biggdan OP
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Want ideally a 20mm spindle on there. That 15mm one as standard is a bit flimsy, I've bigger spindles in the girder yokes.
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:35 PM   #14
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggdan View Post
Want ideally a 20mm spindle on there. That 15mm one as standard is a bit flimsy, I've bigger spindles in the girder yokes.
Agree! Even though the small spindle can take a pretty good beating and some will say it is fine it can be a concern especially when the suspension is beefed up.
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Old 01-17-2014, 05:10 AM   #15
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BTW, all the newer Velorexes have a big 20mm axle and a very good, adjustable shock. Just so you know.
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