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Old 02-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #61
GSWayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBob View Post
That's helpful to me. The best camera in the world is useless if it isn't easy to tote around and the larger size of the sensor is also attractive.

I don't know what to make of this one:
http://www.mobilemag.com/2012/02/01/...x-1000mm-zoom/
No RAW which I would consider major disadvantage if you are trying to do high quality photography. It has a 1/2.3" sensor which is not large.
http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon-P5...anasonic-FZ150
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #62
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Wow, is what I make of that.

Getting tougher all the time to justify DSLR's for most camera users.


Most camera users think an iphone with built-in filter effect produces a great image.

The physics dictate that subject isolation and low-light performance are greatly enhance by bright, large lenses in front of large, modern sensors. You also can't take a 1:1 macro image with any compact camera, nor do they autofocus quickly enough for even casual sports / action photography. The optical compromises of wide zoom ranges cause aberrations, distortion, and loss of sharpness. Many compact cameras get around this by automatically correcting the data in the creation of the jpg, removing distortion (which I think is great). The reason cameras like the S90 and LX5 are successful is that they have larger-than-typical-for-a-compact sensors with bright F/2 or so lenses in front of them. They also benefit from the fact that the small sensor allows shooting at wide apertures without losing depth of field (though that is actually a problem when shooting portraits).

I am a marginal hack of a hobbyist with a camera, but I have taken the time to understand the science of it. There will always be a place for cameras with big sensors, and lenses with bright, distortion-free optics, at least among people who can appreciate the results.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:23 PM   #63
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Those dang laws of physics keep getting in the way of an ideal camera
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GSWayne screwed with this post 02-29-2012 at 05:23 PM
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:38 PM   #64
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I am a marginal hack of a hobbyist with a camera, but I have taken the time to understand the science of it.
Well, yeah. That and a pedantic ass.

Conveniently, you left the important part of my comment out of your quote.

"Interestingly, there's a growing number of serious pros who predict DSLR's will soon vanish from the scene, replaced by well equipped "mirrorless" cameras."

And that's a fact. You could look it up.

Who said anything about doing away with fine lenses and large, modern sensors?

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Old 02-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #65
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I don't disagree with the part about mirrorless replacing single-lens-reflex as the primary consumer interchangeable lens camera, that's why I didn't quote it in my reply.

I disagree with 'most camera users' not benefiting from better equipment, which is why I focused on the physics that necessitates better glass and bigger sensors in certain situations. You simply can't do fisheye, ultra-wide rectilinear, macro, or some specialized telephoto photography with a compact, no matter what the zoom multiplier on the lens is.

And of course I'm a pedantic ass, this is the internet.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:12 PM   #66
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I disagree with 'most camera users' not benefiting from better equipment, which is why I focused on the physics that necessitates better glass and bigger sensors in certain situations. You simply can't do fisheye, ultra-wide rectilinear, macro, or some specialized telephoto photography with a compact, no matter what the zoom multiplier on the lens is.

And of course I'm a pedantic ass, this is the internet.
As long as we're in agreement on that.

Seriously, though. All the camera in the world won't help the guy who hasn't learned to frame a shot effectively, work with available light or hold a camera steady.

I'm not anti-technology, I just think a solid grounding in the fundamentals is more important than the latest and greatest equipment.

In that regard, photograpy's a lot like motorcycling. imho

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Old 02-15-2012, 05:27 PM   #67
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Seriously, though. All the camera in the world won't help the guy who hasn't learned to frame a shot effectively, work with available light or hold a camera steady.

I'm not anti-technology, I just think a solid grounding in the fundamentals is more important than the latest and greatest equipment.
Best way to learn that? Buy an advanced camera that allows full manual control of metering, exposure, focus, aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, learn what all those things are and how they affect the image, and practice.



But we could turn this into the equivalent of an ABS thread if we aren't careful.

Cheers.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:34 PM   #68
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Best way to learn that? Buy an advanced camera that allows full manual control of metering, exposure, focus, aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, learn what all those things are and how they affect the image, and practice.



But we could turn this into the equivalent of an ABS thread if we aren't careful.

Cheers.
What kind of oil do you use in your camera anyway
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:51 PM   #69
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I won't actually buy a camera until I get a chance to handle this one,
http://www.mobilemag.com/2012/02/01/...x-1000mm-zoom/
If the image quality was acceptable it could be what I've been looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
Wow, is what I make of that.

.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:51 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Grainbelt View Post
Best way to learn that? Buy an advanced camera that allows full manual control of metering, exposure, focus, aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, learn what all those things are and how they affect the image, and practice.

But we could turn this into the equivalent of an ABS thread if we aren't careful.

Cheers.
Dude, you're talking to a guy who cut his teeth in the '70's on manual film cameras and Kodachrome 25. I completely agree.

But I realise that not everyone wants or needs to go to the lengths I went to enjoy photography.

And not everyone needs a Nikon D4 and astronaut glass.

And ABS is for posers.

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Old 02-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #71
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'Astronaut glass'.


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Dude, you're talking to a guy who cut his teeth in the '70's on manual film cameras and Kodachrome 25. I completely agree.
I was born in the 80s. I have some film cameras that are older than me, and I love using them.

In fact, I took the below shot with an old 100mm F2.8 lens on my DSLR. Didn't want to pack a big telephoto zoom with me and risk getting tossed by security. Underexposed it a bit, but any shot is better than no shot.

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Old 02-15-2012, 06:05 PM   #72
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Dude, you're talking to a guy who cut his teeth in the '70's on manual film cameras and Kodachrome 25.

I was born in the 80s. I have some film cameras that are older than me, and I love using them.

I studied photography at the University of Minnesota for two years in the late 60's and have shot steadily since then specializing in photographing historic and archaeological resources but it doesn't make me any kind of expert.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:39 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Grainbelt View Post
Best way to learn that? Buy an advanced camera that allows full manual control of metering, exposure, focus, aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, learn what all those things are and how they affect the image, and practice.



But we could turn this into the equivalent of an ABS thread if we aren't careful.

Cheers.
Isn't it funny that the "advanced" cameras now are the ones that allow manual control? I remember when advanced cameras were the ones that would set aperture if you set shutter speed, and the new hotness was a camera that focused itself.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:43 PM   #74
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I studied photography at the University of Minnesota for two years in the late 60's and have shot steadily since then specializing in photographing historic and archaeological resources but it doesn't make me any kind of expert.
But surely it's left you with a useful opinion or two?

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Old 02-15-2012, 06:59 PM   #75
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I won't actually buy a camera until I get a chance to handle this one,
http://www.mobilemag.com/2012/02/01/...x-1000mm-zoom/
If the image quality was acceptable it could be what I've been looking for.
It seems the only advantages of the P510 over the FZ150 is the built in GPS and the 1000m equivalent max zoom compared to 600 mm. How often is 600mm not enough?

Cropped photo from FZ150
From what I have read the GPS on cameras is often frustrating because you have to wait for it to acquire a signal if you want to use it instead of waiting 1 or 2 seconds for the camera to be ready. Otherwise the Pansonic is cheaper, faster, smaller, lighter, twice the battery life and records RAW files. Lots of examples of FZ150 photo quality in this forum: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1033
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