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Old 02-20-2012, 12:58 PM   #16
little foot
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Batt

15% off on Westco Batteries right now.Westco Battery <sales@mkbattery.com>
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:53 AM   #17
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Appreciate all the replies, qman-from what I have read the lithium batteries -seem- to disappoint more often than they please.

If my measurements are correct the oem agm is; 6 3/4 H - 7 7/16 L and 3 1/4 W.
The Odyssey is listed at; 6.7 - 7.3 - 3.1
The ETX14 5 3/4- 5 7/8- 3 7/16

so the bolt/battery 'lug' must be the reason for the very tight fit of the Odyssey? why not just lay it on its side and do what has to be done-if anything-to the cables??, or am I missing something???

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Old 02-22-2012, 11:51 AM   #18
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Walmart Everstart AGM (EB14S I think) It has GS stamped into the plastic right on top, and was a perfect fit.

$67.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:23 PM   #19
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:32 AM   #20
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I went with a Shorai. You can definitely feel the weight difference. They weigh about two pounds compared to 12 or so for the odyssey. The new 21a/h batteries are awesome and work well in cold weather!

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:16 PM   #21
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Decided to go with the Odyssey, now if anyone can tell me the difference between a 3 and 4 stage charger I would be very grateful. The BMW charger I have is 1.25a, Odyssey says the charger they have for the PC680-a 3 stage unit, is 6 a-so it looks like another $70 or so for my fourth charger ??????????
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:18 PM   #22
Dan Căta
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Just go with the BMW charger you have. The battery won't know the difference between the BMW charger, the bike's alternator or your laptop's charger hooked to it.

The charging current should not be > than 10% of how much Ah the battery is rated, so at 1,25 A, you should be just fine.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:16 PM   #23
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No not really.

the Odyssey batteries have a pretty specific charging regiment, most chargers can NOT keep them up above 14.2 volts like they specifiy.

read page 15

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/file...1_0411_000.pdf





Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Căta View Post
Just go with the BMW charger you have. The battery won't know the difference between the BMW charger, the bike's alternator or your laptop's charger hooked to it.

The charging current should not be > than 10% of how much Ah the battery is rated, so at 1,25 A, you should be just fine.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post
No not really.

the Odyssey batteries have a pretty specific charging regiment, most chargers can NOT keep them up above 14.2 volts like they specifiy.

read page 15

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/file...1_0411_000.pdf
Yeah but the point is the bike alternator is not acting like that special charger. It just cranks out full tilt boogie. So why care about the charger??
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:52 PM   #25
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The bike's charging system will treat it right.

It was the other mis-information I was speaking about, like the suggestion to use any old charger, or a laptop charger, pretty much a recipe to void the warranty and get a short life out of an odyssey battery.

assuming it needs to be charged other than from the bike




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Originally Posted by divimon2000 View Post
Yeah but the point is the bike alternator is not acting like that special charger. It just cranks out full tilt boogie. So why care about the charger??
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:53 PM   #26
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Yeah but the point is the bike alternator is not acting like that special charger. It just cranks out full tilt boogie. So why care about the charger??
What he said........Plus, part of the reason for buying an Odyssey is that they don't self discharge. In my opinion, more batteries are ruined by maintenance chargers than are saved by them. Just ride the damn bike. If you haven't ridden it for more than 3 weeks, hook up the charger overnight, and ride the damn bike. Using a battery for its intended purpose makes it last longer than letting it set. Just sayin'.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:56 PM   #27
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absolutely,

Im saying that, if you DO charge an odyssey battery with a charger that isnt decent and powerful, it will not last as long as it would otherwise.

If you never need to charge it, other than riding the bike it will not be an issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wheeldog View Post
What he said........Plus, part of the reason for buying an Odyssey is that they don't self discharge. In my opinion, more batteries are ruined by maintenance chargers than are saved by them. Just ride the damn bike. If you haven't ridden it for more than 3 weeks, hook up the charger overnight, and ride the damn bike. Using a battery for its intended purpose makes it last longer than letting it set. Just sayin'.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #28
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Yes, no, and sort of.

ALL AGM batteries like a slightly higher voltage then flooded lead acid and considerably higher voltage then gel lead acid batteries.

An Odyssey battery will charge fine as low as 13.8 volts at 68F, and current is immaterial. Odyssey can accept any level of inrush as long as voltage does not exceed 14.7 at 68F, So if you have a 30 amp charger that is voltage limited, thats fine at 68F. If you have a 0.8 amp charger, thats fine too, it will just take a little longer.

Where having a made for AGM charger comes in is in rejuvenating a used and or abused battery. As any lead acid battery ages, sulfate builds up on the grids driving capacity and performance down. If the battery is left low for any period of time or worse yet, run flat, then sulfate builds up immediately.

Sulfate hardens over time and eventually becomes non removable and the battery is forever weekend or even bricked.

In an SLI powers ports role, Gel batteries like 13.9 volts peak charging. Flooded likes 14.1 volts and AGM's like 14.4 to 14.7.

The damn F800GS is regulated at 14.1 volts at idle and due to a design defect, 13.9 at RPM. This means the F800GS charging system is optimized for a gel battery yet comes with an AGM and further I know of no one making a gel in that bikes battery size.

The R1200GS/GSA is regulated at 14.4 volts, so made for an AGM. Unfortunately BMW didn't add resistance to the headlight circuit of that bike so the higher voltage causes R12's to eat bulbs lol, but I digress.

An Odyssey will work for a very long time in an F800GS, 1100, 1150 and even longer in an R1200GS, but if you want the longest life and best performance, a built for AGM charger is advised, ESPECIALLY with the F800GS 1100GS and 1150GS due to their weak charging voltage.

P.S. The BMW grey charger IS an AGM charger and has a finishing voltage of 14.4 Older BMW chargers are 14.1 unless they say for gel, in which case they are 13.9 volts and totally wrong for an AGM.

P.P.S. If and Odyssey is run absolutely flat, unlike almost any other battery, it can recover, usually completely. But in this case you need to disconnect the battery from the bike and use a specialized battery charger that will exceed 19 volts to push current through heavy sulfating and restore the battery, such as either of the larger Odyssey battery chargers the go into this mode automatically whew sulfating is detected.

P.P.P.S. An AGM battery does not NEED a higher voltage to charge, it is special in that it can TAKE a higher voltage charge allowing it to rejuvenate from states that flooded and gel batteries could not. BUT using an AGM without charging it at least occasionally at AGM voltages negates all the positives and durability of having an AGM battery.

P.P.P.P.S. the 1100 and 1150 are set for gel batteries and a good occasional AGM battery charge will extend life and performance in this application, or you can change your voltage regulator to something optimized for an AGM

P.P.P.P.P.S. This applies to all AGM's Excide, Yuasa, Deka, Odyssey, and whatever other brands. Odyssey is the highest quality, but it has no charging requirements that aren't the same as other AGM batteries. It is a touch more robust then some and can take an even higher voltage to get past hard sulfating as can the DEKA, but thats only needed if severely abused.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:21 AM   #29
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Thank you all, the info is more helpful than I can describe-so, is it fair to say that -I- and my lack of being able to ride much anymore style (read, the official BMW 1.25A gel cell charger being used for extended periods of time for an agm battery) kinda/sorta might be the reason for me contributing generously over the years to one particular agm battery makers bottom line??

What still has me a bit confused is the difference between a three and four stage charger, the notion of 'the battery killing trickle charge phase' Deltrans sentiment not mine, and the necessity of a 6A charger for a combo deep cycle/starting battery, the sentiment of Odyssey. The latter is beginning to appear to be critical for someone in my particular situation, or for that matter, for anyone that cannot ride during the cold weather season; if they live in such an area..

Does anyone suspect that I may have identifed watt the current problem is; get it-pretty good huh ?-or has that already been used here about a trillion times: by the way, do you know that a trillion seconds is over 32,000 (thirty two thousand) years ???

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:15 AM   #30
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I think you have it. Stages are to a large degree advertising. I own 2 of Odyssey's chargers, the 6 amp and the 15 amp and have watched both on a paperless recorder do their thing.

Odyssey 15 amp.

1: look for voltage. It won't turn on unless it sees at least 3 volts coming from the battery, otherwise it wouldn't know if you hooked the charger to the battery backwards and there would be a small spark as you hooked the clips to the battery. This is a safety at all costs thing to keep you from blowing shit up if you are totally incompetent. Some manufactures call this a stage, Odyssey does not.

2: Hit the battery with a large pulse of current for a fraction of a second and watch the rate of voltage climb and fall. Most smart chargers do this to see what condition the battery is in and if it is attached to load or disconnected. Some manufactures call this a stage, Odyssey does not.

3: on a super sulfated battery, even trickling in 0.1 amps will cause the voltage to rise to the 14.7 volt AGM cutoff threshold, but 14.7 volts won't break down the hard sulfating preventing the battery from accepting current in a trillion seconds. Upon detection if this highly sulfated condition, the larger (all but 6 amp) Odyssey chargers switch to a 21 volt threshold until enough sulfate breaks down to allow acceptance of decent current, then back to the 14.7 volt cutoff. This is ABSOLUTELY a stage and one few chargers have, but Odyssey doesn't consider it a stage.

4: Bulk charging. The charger is pedal to the medal dumping as much current as it is rated for into the battery. The battery is discharged enough that voltage remains below 14.7 volts. This is a stage and Odyssey calls it a stage.

5: Absorption charging. The charger going pedal to the medal has charged the battery enough that the voltage has risen to 14.7 volts. Now the charger tapers the charging current down to hold the voltage at 14,7 volts. This is a stage and Odyssey agrees.

6: Low current threshold. to remain below 14.7 volts, current has tapered to a small value because the battery is almost entirely charged. Different chargers do different things here and at different current values. Most go into float voltage which is a stage even by Odyssey standards. Some turn off, but continue to monitor and begin charging again if the voltage drops below a certain value, typically 12.8-13.2 volts. I like both styles, both have benefits and negatives.

7: High voltage sulfate softening pulses. Throughout the float or off phase, many chargers pulse the battery to a fairly high voltage a second or two at a time with many minutes in-between. This softens the sulfate on an AGM battery which is good. It also drives the voltage well into the battery gassing range, but since it only occurs for a second or two, not enough pressure builds in the battery to cause venting and between pulses recombination turns the gasses back into electrolyte and relieves pressure. Not all chargers do this, but all AGM chargers should do this, though not all do. A gel or flooded charger should never do this. This is absolutely a stage and all the Odyssey chargers do it but Odyssey doesn't call it a stage.

I missed at least one stage, cause my CTEK charger advertises it is an 8 stage charger, but it does not do anything the Odyssey charger doesn't also.


The important thing, pumping a gel into gassing voltage is very bad. Pumping AGM's into gassing mildly and heavily for brief periods is helpful and proper. Excessive charge rates for a flooded battery kills it. High charge rates for an AGM is good cause it helps physically break up sulfate.

I DON'T LIKE DELTRAN. It's not personal and there chargers are fine for some types of batteries and usage, but I HATE their advertising! I won't buy Amsoil for the same reason. It's probably a good oil but the advertising about it's superiority is BULLSHIT, just like Deltrans.

The 4th stage deltran lists is "initialization phase". They never define it, searching their site pulls up nothing, it's probably the initial test to make sure you didn't hook the battery up backwards.

To every battery charger manufacture including Deltran who make a charger that is "optimized for all lead/acid chemistry" Unless it has buttons to select the battery type, you are full of shit!

It carries a little with slight different chemistries, construction methods and intended use, but heres the crux:

Optimal Gel float voltage is around 13.2 volts
Optimal AGM float voltage is around 13.6 volts
Optimal flooded float voltage is around 13.4 volts

Optimal Gel absorption voltage is 14 volts
Optimal AGM absorption voltage is 14.7 volts
Optimal flooded absorption voltage is 14.2 volts

There is no way to optimize a charger for these different requirements without having a button or switch to select chemistry.

Get a charger that is made to JUST charge AGM batteries or has a button where an AGM charging algorithm can be selected.

Don't worry about Deltrans BS 4th stage or Odyssey's claim you need a bigger charger, you don't.
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