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Old 03-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #61
simmonsk133
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Dekka came in today. Battery was 12..6 or 12.7V depending on which Harbor Freight precision measuring device you like. My Fluke LCD display has turned black and is now unusable. Anyway, put it on Optimate 4 charger, went to dinner, and it now reads full charge. Again, 13.6V according to the HF meter.
Now that Georgia is in the middle of a heat wave, the bike starts pretty good. I will probably let the new one set a bit, until I see further signs of slow starts. Now to change the FD and Trans fluids...
Thanks for the help!
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:40 AM   #62
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If the Odyssey is half as good as the Deka-East Penn- batteries we have in use I will be very happy they really do make a fine product;

http://www.dekabatteries.com/

snowbound, five years is good, I don't think I got five years from two BMW batteries combined....!
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:23 AM   #63
MaineRunner
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Noob question. My 2011 R1200GSA has a spacer block under the battery. Do all GS's have this spacer? Seems like a good opportunity to install a taller battery.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaineRunner View Post
Noob question. My 2011 R1200GSA has a spacer block under the battery. Do all GS's have this spacer? Seems like a good opportunity to install a taller battery.
You got a bike with a YTZ12 battery in it. BMW is testing this battery. Bikes without this spacer came stock with a YTX14 battery, and a YTX14 sized battery will fit in it without the spacer, of which I think the Deka ETX14 is the best.


The YTZ12 performs poorly in the 12GS when it's cold or you leave the key on for a significant time before starting, it's an 11 amp hour, 210 CCA battery when new, but degrades rapidly. It is made by Excide/Yuasa but BMW labeled
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:14 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
You got a bike with a YTZ12 battery in it. BMW is testing this battery. Bikes without this spacer came stock with a YTX14 battery, and a YTX14 sized battery will fit in it without the spacer, of which I think the Deka ETX14 is the best.


The YTZ12 performs poorly in the 12GS when it's cold or you leave the key on for a significant time before starting, it's an 11 amp hour, 210 CCA battery when new, but degrades rapidly. It is made by Excide/Yuasa but BMW labeled

Well that's interesting...I took a ride yesterday. It was 41'F. My bike definitely labored when I started it.

JoelW; is this a Deka battery? Seems like a good price:

[URL="http://shop.advanceautoparts.com

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Old 03-12-2012, 03:28 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by MaineRunner View Post
Well that's interesting...I took a ride yesterday. It was 41'F. My bike definitely labored when I started it.

JoelW; is this a Deka battery? Seems like a good price:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...8_A%7CGRP60054_____
I don't know which is rare for me in the world of batteries.

It is defiantly an East Penn DEKA case. It has the DEKA terminal cover and spacers.

It also has DEKA forged posts and no one else does it that way. All other AGM manufactures use casts posts except for Odyssey who also forges but has them recessed.

Problem is, if I log into an old purchase account (terribly lax security of employer from 11 years ago, but I can't actually buy anything with it as it would just show up on their loading dock 2000 miles away) which does a HUGE volume with East Penn, and quote purchasing the ETX14 1000 units at a time, I get a cost of 53.82 per each. Its hard for me to imagine anyone selling this battery for 55 bucks!

I will rattle someones cage over at East Penn tomorrow and see what the deal is.

In either case, weather it is or no, storing a battery on the shelf forever without charging it is terrible for a battery and ensures it will crank poorly and die early.

When buying a battery from anything other then a reputable battery wholesaler, Take a multimeter with you and measure the battery terminal voltage. 12.6 volts and higher is good. If the battery is below 12.6 volts, don't buy it no matter who made it and how cheap it is.

This by the way is one of the reason replacement batteries at motorcycle dealerships almost always die early, they don't charge them as they sit and the batteries are half worn out before you even install them.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:24 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
I don't know which is rare for me in the world of batteries.

It is defiantly an East Penn DEKA case. It has the DEKA terminal cover and spacers.

It also has DEKA forged posts and no one else does it that way. All other AGM manufactures use casts posts except for Odyssey who also forges but has them recessed.

Problem is, if I log into an old purchase account (terribly lax security of employer from 11 years ago, but I can't actually buy anything with it as it would just show up on their loading dock 2000 miles away) which does a HUGE volume with East Penn, and quote purchasing the ETX14 1000 units at a time, I get a cost of 53.82 per each. Its hard for me to imagine anyone selling this battery for 55 bucks!

I will rattle someones cage over at East Penn tomorrow and see what the deal is.

In either case, weather it is or no, storing a battery on the shelf forever without charging it is terrible for a battery and ensures it will crank poorly and die early.

When buying a battery from anything other then a reputable battery wholesaler, Take a multimeter with you and measure the battery terminal voltage. 12.6 volts and higher is good. If the battery is below 12.6 volts, don't buy it no matter who made it and how cheap it is.

This by the way is one of the reason replacement batteries at motorcycle dealerships almost always die early, they don't charge them as they sit and the batteries are half worn out before you even install them.
Thanks...
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:21 PM   #68
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Yep, the $55 "Magna Power" battery here

Is made by East Penn. DO NOTE, it's a ETX14L battery. The L is important because it means the positive terminal is on the LEFT which is not a common configuration which MAY be why they are so cheap. Not many bikes take an L battery and not many bike cables would reach. This increases the odds that these batteries are old, so I wouldn't buy from them unless you go to the store, multimeter in hand, and measure at least a 12.6 terminal voltage. 12.5 means it's set for at least 6 months without being charged and will quit early on you.

I should have looked at he picture closer and noticed the "EPM products" at the bottom. EPM= East Penn Manufacturing.

Anyway calling East Penn gave me the chance to rattle their cage about all the "PBEQ" CCA and AH ratings popping up on Lithium batteries which is annoying me heavily, but thats another story.

As I said before, but deserving being said again:

Lead acid batteries have a 10+ year shelf life IF and only IF they are charged once every 3 months so that terminal voltage remains at or above 12.6 volts.

If the battery sits in some distributors warehouse for 6 months, then on the retail floor for 6 months without ever being charged, it is junk and though it may start your bike, it's life expectancy is compromised and it will die on you rather early.


If ordering online, I don't know Bohannon well, but have heard good things and both customers I know of who ordered from them received batteries with nearly 12.8 terminal voltages, so very fresh

Bohannon Battery ETX14, currently $73, free shipping


I know these guys well and trust them 100% The battery is labeled "Big Crank" but it is a 100% Deka East Penn.
Battery Mart Currently $71 with free shipping
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #69
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Original battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by danboone View Post
after lots of problems with 4 original Batteries in the first year, used Odyssey on my 06' 1200GS for 5 years: not a single Problem, will change to Odyssey soon in my new ADV soon, using an Odyssey in my 89 100GS for 2 years now, guess what, not a problem,

Regards,

I guess I am doing something wrong. I have an 06 (first owner purchased new in April 06 and I bought it in November of 06) that is still on the stock battery. I have 62K on it and use a Battery Tender when it will be sitting for over a few weeks.

Of course it will now die on me tomorrow and I will have to review this thread to determine what I to replace it with.
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:00 AM   #70
fivetimeson129 OP
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Z50, the longevity that some members experience with batteries is very interesting to me-there is a variable and I tend to believe that 'tending' the battery is not it as I have always had our battery charger, tender, attached to the bike during extended periods of non use or after a few days of not riding during the 'season'.

As I only have the bike serviced at a very well respected dealer I am confident that I can also eliminate mechanical issues with the bike as related to the charging system.

I really would pay to get this figured out.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:01 AM   #71
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Is this accurate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzpYsLDUAM

I realize that it is not a Shoria battery but the general consensus appears to be that the battery (any LiFe) must wake/warm up during cooler weather before it will send full capacity out; if so, why the attraction.

Certainly the massive voltage drop, I saw 4-5volts, cannot be 'good' for the Harley.

fivetimeson129 screwed with this post 03-14-2012 at 08:17 AM
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:06 AM   #72
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If anyone is interested the metal jacket PC680 was a REAL tight fit in my 2000 R1150GS, I wouldn't buy MJT for that model bike.
I just twisted the OEM cables to sit on the top and dispensed with any L's or other mods.

YMMV
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:32 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by fivetimeson129 View Post
Thank you all, FatChance what mods are necessary to get the Odyssey into a GS, cable lengthening?-are both the WestCo and Odyssey made in the States??

estlerd, 7 years would make me very happy.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:39 PM   #74
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fivetimeson129 View Post
Z50, the longevity that some members experience with batteries is very interesting to me-there is a variable and I tend to believe that 'tending' the battery is not it as I have always had our battery charger, tender, attached to the bike during extended periods of non use or after a few days of not riding during the 'season'.

As I only have the bike serviced at a very well respected dealer I am confident that I can also eliminate mechanical issues with the bike as related to the charging system.

I really would pay to get this figured out.
The biggest single variable is how the battery is treated before you get it.

BMW does not open the crate your bike is shipped from Germany in, so the battery sits, self discharging for as long as it takes to go from Germany to the warehouse, then it sits in the destination country till a dealer allocates and receives it.

Next up to sits in the dealership until they uncrate it, which is supposed to be right away but space is a premium and if the model is already represented on the floor, well bikes store easier in crates.

Next the bike is uncrated and PDI'd at which point the battery is usually charged but depending on the hurry, perhaps not completely.

Lastly the bike sits on the sales floor and is supposed to be charged once a month, but many dealers perform poorly on this front. Also occasionally the key gets left on by consumer or sales person partially or completely depleting the battery.

This plays hell with life expectancy of the first battery.



With subsequent batteries, newer BMW's have very high parasitic draw so long times off maintenance chargers are hard on them.

On very new bikes the basic controller or ZFE as BMW calls it sometimes glitches and fails to shut down 2 minutes after bike is switched off creating a 0.8 to 2.3 amp draw till the battery is destroyed which the customer perceives as a sudden failure. This isn't common but absolutely does happen and far more often to some then others. It is almost impossible to catch because there is no outward sign.

Most dealerships identify charging system faults by guessing or a process of elimination because there is very little training in electrical diagnosis by BMW and the feeder schools that are supposed to teach this before a tech goes to factory training have pretty much a 100% pass rate that has nothing to do with the quality of teaching or student.

I know many BMW certified master technicians that could not tell you the 4 cycles of a 4 cycle engine. i.e. they do not understand how internal combustion works. So regardless of how nice the service manager is or how competent the technician seems at dealing with common problems, most don't know anything beyond the first thing about charging systems.

The old GEL batteries held up fairly well but BMW went to an Excide manufactured YTX14 battery that has major quality control issues. Most fail pretty early but that still leaves some that last well.


When someone purchases a replacement battery of any brand, the same thing holds. How long has it sat depleted? Dealerships are supposed to charge inventoried batteries and record open circuit terminal voltages before each charge, discarding battery if the terminal voltage is below 12.6, but none I know of do, and the same goes for parts stores.

Most people that buy batteries from large high volume distributors get fresher batteries, but even purchasing from a dealership or parts outlet, some will get lucky and get a fresh battery.


Average temperature is a big factor for battery longevity. High average ambient temperatures in places such as Texas, Florida, southern California, wear out batteries a lot quicker, and people that live in super cold climates AND actually start their bikes in super cold ambient temperatures, although being in a climate batteries last fine, will notice battery age sooner as starting in such extremes will make a battery seem failed that would work for another year in a moderate climate.

People in moderate climates always report the longest battery life.

Other issues like high resistance connections, for example, the ground on the engine near where the tele lever attaches is VERY commonly not torqued and often even cross threaded by the factory. This will rarely be caught by a dealership but wreaks havoc with charging and causes a bike to fail batteries rapidly.

Thats the main things I can think of.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:46 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fivetimeson129 View Post
Is this accurate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzpYsLDUAM

I realize that it is not a Shoria battery but the general consensus appears to be that the battery (any LiFe) must wake/warm up during cooler weather before it will send full capacity out; if so, why the attraction.

Certainly the massive voltage drop, I saw 4-5volts, cannot be 'good' for the Harley.
It might be okay on a harley, or many BMW bikes, but NOT the boxer. The pinion will chatter when engaging the flywheel and you will tear the crud and teeth off the flywheel.

You don't have to crank the bike to warm a LiFePo4 battery, turning the key on and activating the high beam for a period is sufficient.

LiFePo4 batteries are not all created equal between manufactures. Chemistries vary as do capacities.

I am in the midst of testing 3 brands of LiFePo4 batteries for possible use on 4 adventure bikes I am preping (R1200GSA, F800GSA, Aprilia Caponord) I'm not done, but am seeing big differences between brands, and of course size DOES matter lol
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