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Old 04-04-2012, 10:47 PM   #121
Tomcat503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks guys - you made it easier for me.

I just got back from a ride (using the motorcycle that will start) down to north of Fort Lauderdale airport where there is a big Deka warehouse.

Got an AGM Deka for the cheap & cheerful ADV bike for appreciably less than Pep Boys wanted for one of their shitty 3-month lead-acid batteries. Very happy, happier yet that they're made in Pennsyltucky.
Glad that it worked out, I think you should be good to go for a while. Now what type/brand/viscosity of oil are you putting in that bike?
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:27 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Randy View Post

[T]he battery has a 100% charge if the voltage is 12.84V or higher [when disconnected].

Now, what I don't get is, if the battery will sit for extended periods, disconnected, and be good to go without sulfation issues with a resting voltage of 12.84V, how is it that if I keep it on my charger at 13.27V it is going to lead to sulfation?

I mean it seems reasonable to me that as long as the float charge voltage is higher than the batteries resting voltage, and the charging current exceeds the parasitic current draw imposed on the battery if it is left connected to the bike's electrical system, then the charger will maintain the battery just fine.
Oh no, that's too logical. Don't you know that everything leads to sulfation?! High voltage, low voltage, everything. Sounds like such a bad word too, sulfation.

Like AGM for instance, sounds so nice. Absorbed Glass Mat. Sounds like there's something really technical going on. Really it's just a fiberglass sock that the lead plates are placed in. A convenient and economical plate separator. The fiberglass sock keeps the plates from touching each other and shorting. The sock also helps collect particles from the paste coating of lead oxides applied to the plates during manufacturing. That coating flakes off the plates over time, and that 'dandruff' is conductive.

Absorbed Glass Mat = practical fiberglass bag


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Old 04-04-2012, 11:49 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
I've been thinking and have decided that I'm still confused. Now I am definitely not a "battery scientist" and have never played one on TV. Hell, I haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in several weeks...

But... according to the literature that came with my battery, as well as what I've read on their website, the battery has a 100% charge if the voltage is 12.84V or higher. Now, what I don't get is, if the battery will sit for extended periods, disconnected, and be good to go without sulfation issues with a resting voltage of 12.84V, how is it that if I keep it on my charger at 13.27V it is going to lead to sulfation? I mean it seems reasonable to me that as long as the float charge voltage is higher than the batteries resting voltage, and the charging current exceeds the parasitic current draw imposed on the battery if it is left connected to the bike's electrical system, then the charger will maintain the battery just fine.

Leaves me to wonder just how much of a difference it makes in the real world and how much of it is just marketing..............
I can't answer this for a motorcycle as i'm not aware of anyone ever doing a controlled study with such.

I am plugged into the sailing world, heavy equipment world, and car/truck world that HAS done studies, some formal and some not but still good.

In the heavy equipment Cat did a study and claimed 30% greater service life which all chemistries of battery when they switched some vehicles to chemistry specific charging. They did not differentiate on the ratio that gel, flooded, and agm life increased but do use all 3.

In ocean going sail boats Cal got 40% longer life with AGM specific charge algorithms, but I don't know what that would mean for motorcycles as sail boat service is a hard cyclic use for a battery.

Both of these studies were written up in trade magazines and not anywhere I can find on the net.

Some european car rental company switched to AGM's and got fewer benefits then expected, then started using chargers with an AGM algorithm and it improved, but I don't remember by how much.

P.S. The Odyssey is one of the finest batteries on the market, but despite claims by them to the contrary, they charge just like any other quality AGM, which is to say, they charge best by algorithms designed for pure lead or lead/calcium AGM which includes Deka, Yuasa YTZ series, power sonic AGM, concord, MK, and many others.

Yuasa YTX series and optima AGM batteries are lead / antimony batteries that like a lower float voltage and charge best at the wet cell voltage unless in applications that tend to build sulfating such as infrequent motorcycling when the AGM algorithm is best.

How much life is lost due to Battery tenders generic middle of the road algorithm, I don't know, but their advertising that they are some how optimized for 3 very different chemistries really pisses off the electrician in me so I go out of my way never to use their product.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:26 AM   #124
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More... and even more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivetimeson129 View Post
Coswede, new name to me so I went to the web site and no mention as to country of origin, usually this means that the product is Chinese, do you have any info as to where their batteries are made?

http://www.motobattbatteries.com/

Is this the Company referenced ??
Yes, that's the web site. Chinese it appears but the reviews by some are very incising! Not enuf however to keep me from buying a PC680 for my 1150GS just last week from batterymart.com $114 + free shipping.

And not to promote any other site... however via google I found this very nerdy analysis of:
The MotoBatt MBTX16U (MBatt)
The Scorpion sYTX16BS1 (SBatt)
The Odyssey PC535 (OBatt)
The Westco SVR14 (WBatt)
The BatteriesPlus Xtreme XTX16BS1 (XBatt)

Check it out if you wish... http://www.boulevardowners.com/cafe/...topicID=157926

There were all kinds of pretty graphs and tests results and such and so on, and on and on...

COSwede screwed with this post 04-06-2012 at 10:29 AM Reason: add a little more
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #125
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My apologies for resurrecting this thread, but perhaps this will be a useful data point for others. I just received an ETX15L from Battery Mart. It has a date code of E2 (May 2012) and an OCV of 12.35 V. These appear to be somewhat inconsistent, since the self-discharge rate should be on the order of 3% per month, but these indicate 50% in less than three months. Any thoughts? Should I attempt to send the battery back?
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:27 PM   #126
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What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouro View Post
My apologies for resurrecting this thread, but perhaps this will be a useful data point for others. I just received an ETX15L from Battery Mart. It has a date code of E2 (May 2012) and an OCV of 12.35 V. These appear to be somewhat inconsistent, since the self-discharge rate should be on the order of 3% per month, but these indicate 50% in less than three months. Any thoughts? Should I attempt to send the battery back?

Could you explain this question...I am interested but don't understand the question. Manufacturing date of 5-2012 and? 50% of what? Thanks.

Have you tried calling Battery Mart or the manufacturer of the battery to see what they say?
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:56 PM   #127
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My claim is that an OCV of 12.35 V indicates that the battery is approximately 50% discharged, which appears to be excessive, since the battery was manufactured less than three months ago. I am requesting opinions regarding why the discharge rate may be higher than expected. I have not contacted Battery Mart yet. I am not certain that I have sufficient time to perform an exchange, since I am starting a long ride in a few days.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:36 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouro View Post
My claim is that an OCV of 12.35 V indicates that the battery is approximately 50% discharged, which appears to be excessive, since the battery was manufactured less than three months ago. I am requesting opinions regarding why the discharge rate may be higher than expected. I have not contacted Battery Mart yet. I am not certain that I have sufficient time to perform an exchange, since I am starting a long ride in a few days.
Sorry I could not answer your question...Open Circuit Voltage of 12.35 V is 50% discharged? What should it be at -9%? Thanks again for any explanations...always want to learn.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:38 PM   #129
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Hmmm. Nice thread.

I have a BMW battery charger on my 05 12GS and I believe the bike is on the original battery.



For the past three years I've been thinking of getting a new battery, but just haven't gotten around to it. Any thoughts on replacing battery because they're old, not because they're not working?
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:24 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouro View Post
My apologies for resurrecting this thread, but perhaps this will be a useful data point for others. I just received an ETX15L from Battery Mart. It has a date code of E2 (May 2012) and an OCV of 12.35 V. These appear to be somewhat inconsistent, since the self-discharge rate should be on the order of 3% per month, but these indicate 50% in less than three months. Any thoughts? Should I attempt to send the battery back?
Batteries don't have a "self discharge rate". They sometimes have an average self discharge TABLE.

Temperature is the most important variable. Lead acid batteries stored at higher ambient temperatures will self discharge faster and it's not linear but closer to exponential.

That said, my guess would be that your multimeter is totally inaccurate. I could test a batteries OCV and say "it's between 12.26 and 12.45 volts" when my meter read 12.35 volts ONLY because my meter has very few fancy features, was calibrated 8 months ago, AND cost $650.00.

I'm going to make a guess that your meter cost between $50 and $200 dollars and has never been calibrated. If such is true, it is likely off by up to 0.5 volts and therefore not useful for battery OCV measurements.

If your near St Louis or willing to send your meter to a calibration facility then this can be confirmed.

If the battery really is at 12.35 volts, I would send it back.

I have a thread about LiFePO4 batteries and when I got people to test their meters all including older $200 flukes were off half a volt or more.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:45 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
Sorry I could not answer your question...Open Circuit Voltage of 12.35 V is 50% discharged? What should it be at -9%? Thanks again for any explanations...always want to learn.
Well, assuming an exponential discharge curve, the battery should be at approximately 91% capacity after three months, but see Joel's explanation above.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:46 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Batteries don't have a "self discharge rate". They sometimes have an average self discharge TABLE.

Temperature is the most important variable. Lead acid batteries stored at higher ambient temperatures will self discharge faster and it's not linear but closer to exponential.

That said, my guess would be that your multimeter is totally inaccurate. I could test a batteries OCV and say "it's between 12.26 and 12.45 volts" when my meter read 12.35 volts ONLY because my meter has very few fancy features, was calibrated 8 months ago, AND cost $650.00.

I'm going to make a guess that your meter cost between $50 and $200 dollars and has never been calibrated. If such is true, it is likely off by up to 0.5 volts and therefore not useful for battery OCV measurements.

If your near St Louis or willing to send your meter to a calibration facility then this can be confirmed.

If the battery really is at 12.35 volts, I would send it back.

I have a thread about LiFePO4 batteries and when I got people to test their meters all including older $200 flukes were off half a volt or more.
My multimeter is an HP 972A--not certain on the original cost--calibrated at the time of manufacture and never again and used very sparingly since then. I am not certain what its current DC voltage error is, but I doubt that it is as high as 0.5 V--my measurements on other batteries have been largely as expected. Unfortunately, I do not have any equipment against which I can calibrate it at home at the moment, but perhaps I can do it at work in the future.

Assuming that the multimeter is accurate, there are several theories regarding the battery: (0) it was not fully charged initially; (1) it was subjected to higher temperatures; (2) it is defective in some way. I suppose that a field longevity test will eventually give some evidence.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:38 AM   #133
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joel, I have several very expensive Fluke dmms, and their age precludes them from being true rms which is the limiting factor in being able to do some types of testing, or rather being able to get accurate readings with some types of testing-for the work I do.

There are four meters in my van, and a surprising number of times the one I reach for is my prized Simpson, analog of course....
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:31 PM   #134
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So I have read this thread and still dont know what battery to buy the Yuassa I bought to replace my OEM battery on my 08 GSA with ESA is a POS and wont hold a charge.. I would like to try an Odyssey.. which one do I buy???
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:30 PM   #135
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Resurrecting..

Wow, more battery electrical info than I can process. However, I'm in a similar situation as Lobby above. Same exact charger, original battery in an 09 GSA. (mfg date in 8/08 I believe). Original owner had bike on charger.

What do the battery gurus say? Should I replace the battery with the Deka preemptively?

Also, is that BMW charger a good one for the AGM batteries, or should I switch to an Optimate when I change the battery?

Thanks guys!
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