ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-21-2012, 03:40 PM   #1
bwalsh OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,629
2005 950ADV issues???

It's a 2005 NOT a 2006. I screwed up with the title.

I've been talking with a guy who has a 2005 KTM 950 with 20,250 miles for sale. It is real nice and runs good at normal speeds and RPM's BUT at about 6 grand the engine starts vibrating hard.
Also, if you cut it off then start it back up a few minutes later, the engine sounds starved for oil for about 2 seconds. I didn't get to hear it start up when it was cold as I was filling out a waver while one of the employee's started it. I made a video. You can just hear the clatter for a brief second or two. If you restart immediately it wont do it.


Do you think this is normal? I know BMW's do this but have never heard of a KTM doing it. A buddy who has a 990 said his does not do this.

It's a real good deal(that I've been negotiating) but I don't want to be doing engine work right off the bat if there is something wrong with it.

Any suggestions as to what might be causing it? Causes, cures? Should I get it or walk away?
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST




bwalsh screwed with this post 02-21-2012 at 03:48 PM
bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 03:58 PM   #2
OtownMike
Electron Pusher
 
OtownMike's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Otown
Oddometer: 281
Sounds like the cam chains tensioners coming up to pressure. Looks like it stops once your oil pressure light goes off, mine does the same thing, so do most, amount of time varies. I havent payed attention to how long it has to sit before it will do it again. If the paper oil filter is dirty it can take longer to pressurize. I havent noticed hard vibes at any particular RPM, not sure about that.
OtownMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:03 PM   #3
japslap
Japslap
 
japslap's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Not so Great Britain
Oddometer: 139
my 07 makes that rattle on startup from cold,pretty sure thats normal....
japslap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:07 PM   #4
Orangecicle
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,089
Sounds pretty normal to me. Some 950s clatter more than others. Wear ear plugs. . If she rus rough at speed, it could be carbs. I've seen that with my bike, which was way over jetted when I bought it.
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Loud tires save lives." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #5
vabuckaroo68
Gnarly!
 
vabuckaroo68's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Locust Dale, VA
Oddometer: 1,129
Sitting still at 6K or running down the road?
__________________
"Over the Mountains Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow, Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied- "If you seek for Eldorado!" E.A.P. 1849
04 KTM 950 ADV ~ "BEASTIE", '08 KTM 450 XCR-W, Husky 360 WR/CR, Bultaco Frontera 250
vabuckaroo68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:32 PM   #6
MT950
"OLD" Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: montana
Oddometer: 246
Rattle/vibration!

Cam chain noise at start up is normal,some seam worse than others! However, you also mention it runs smooth too 6,000rpms the picks up bad vibration at higher revs? May want to check valve adjustment? You can check cam chain at same time. It could also be in carb jetting? My 06 950 S pulls hard/smooth( IMO) all the way to 9500rpm which should be normal. Service is the "key word" the big KTM 9xx's are great (I've owned 3) , but need your attention "maint." to get max. performance.
MT950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:36 PM   #7
bwalsh OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtownMike
Sounds like the cam chains tensioners coming up to pressure. Looks like it stops once your oil pressure light goes off, mine does the same thing, so do most, amount of time varies. I havent payed attention to how long it has to sit before it will do it again. If the paper oil filter is dirty it can take longer to pressurize. I havent noticed hard vibes at any particular RPM, not sure about that.
Tell me more about these cam chain tensioners. Are they adjustable? Why would they be an issue with only 20,000 miles?
It does stop as soon as the light goes off though one time it continued making noise for close to ten-twelve seconds.
I PMed a couple inmates. One mentioned dirty oil filters. It could be. The oil is definitely not fresh.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangecicle View Post
Sounds pretty normal to me. Some 950s clatter more than others. Wear ear plugs. . If she rus rough at speed, it could be carbs. I've seen that with my bike, which was way over jetted when I bought it.
Would it make the whole bike shake? It runs pretty smooth otherwise. I don't plan on running it WOT but I also don't want to buy someone elses troubles.

Thanks for the replies so far! Keep them coming. I want to decide in the next day or two whether I want to get the bike or keep looking.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:37 PM   #8
dlrides
1:1.618
 
dlrides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Newton NC
Oddometer: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
It's a 2005 NOT a 2006. I screwed up with the title.

I've been talking with a guy who has a 2005 KTM 950 with 20,250 miles for sale. It is real nice and runs good at normal speeds and RPM's BUT at about 6 grand the engine starts vibrating hard.
Also, if you cut it off then start it back up a few minutes later, the engine sounds starved for oil for about 2 seconds. I didn't get to hear it start up when it was cold as I was filling out a waver while one of the employee's started it. I made a video. You can just hear the clatter for a brief second or two. If you restart immediately it wont do it.


Do you think this is normal? I know BMW's do this but have never heard of a KTM doing it. A buddy who has a 990 said his does not do this.

It's a real good deal(that I've been negotiating) but I don't want to be doing engine work right off the bat if there is something wrong with it.

Any suggestions as to what might be causing it? Causes, cures? Should I get it or walk away?

I wouldn't worry about the ticking on start, but I would be concerned about the vibration. It could be as simple as a loose motor mount, or as serious as a motor tear down. A friend of mine fought vibes on a used 950 he bought for months, and upon engine tear down found a severely worn piston.

Run, don't walk, unless you can get it cheap and have the mechanical abilities to find the problem.
__________________
"The BSC was strong in that one, had to get out !"
dlrides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:37 PM   #9
bwalsh OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by vabuckaroo68 View Post
Sitting still at 6K or running down the road?
Down the road.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:44 PM   #10
bwalsh OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT950 View Post
Cam chain noise at start up is normal,some seam worse than others! However, you also mention it runs smooth too 6,000rpms the picks up bad vibration at higher revs? May want to check valve adjustment? You can check cam chain at same time. It could also be in carb jetting? My 06 950 S pulls hard/smooth( IMO) all the way to 9500rpm which should be normal. Service is the "key word" the big KTM 9xx's are great (I've owned 3) , but need your attention "maint." to get max. performance.
It pulls great, just starts vibrating hard at around 6000rpm's. I was too skierd to take it any higher.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dlrides View Post
I wouldn't worry about the ticking on start, but I would be concerned about the vibration. It could be as simple as a loose motor mount, or as serious as a motor tear down. A friend of mine fought vibes on a used 950 he bought for months, and upon engine tear down found a severely worn piston.

Run, don't walk, unless you can get it cheap and have the mechanical abilities to find the problem.
What about Valve and carb adjustments like others mentioned? There is no vibration until 6000. If I hadn't gotten into it for the hell of it I never would have noticed the vibes. That was seven miles of 70mph interstate and the rest 35-60 on back roads.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 04:51 PM   #11
dlrides
1:1.618
 
dlrides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Newton NC
Oddometer: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
It pulls great, just starts vibrating hard at around 6000rpm's. I was too skierd to take it any higher.





What about Valve and carb adjustments like others mentioned? There is no vibration until 6000. If I hadn't gotten into it for the hell of it I never would have noticed the vibes. That was seven miles of 70mph interstate and the rest 35-60 on back roads.
That falls in the range of potential causes.

Do you have confidence in internet forums diagnosing the issue sight unseen ...................... with your money ?


__________________
"The BSC was strong in that one, had to get out !"
dlrides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 05:04 PM   #12
TheMuffinMan
Forest Ranger Magnet
 
TheMuffinMan's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Denver, USA
Oddometer: 5,163
Vibration: The main jet might be clogged or improperly set for one of the cylinders, a wheel might be out of balance.

Noise: My bike does that when hot after it's been sitting over lunctime, and sometimes when cold. The fix is a new relief valve spring. Higher viscosity oil (10-50 or 10-60 for example) will help until you get the spring replaced.


The noise I'm not worried about. Some vibration is normal with these bikes so your best bet would be to have another 950A owner in the area check it out with you so he can let you know if the vibes are normal or if something's majorly borked. Another more involved option is to take it to a dealer for an inspection and have a compression test done on each cylinder.

If you don't want to go through the trouble tell the guy to give you a break so if there is engine trouble you can somewhat pay for it. Carb's gumming up/improperly jetted, or a shittily balanced wheel are much more common on these bikes then a bad piston as was suggested. Of course I'm about 1700 miles away so take that for what it's worth.

After having my bike for 6 months now I'm so not intimidated by wrenching on it, you'll learn it one way or another when you own one of these
__________________
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost."
'12 690 Enduro // 690 Wiki
TheMuffinMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 05:29 PM   #13
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,491
My 06 950 started developing a bad vibration issue at about this RPM. I've owned a 625 SXC (LC4) so I'm used to vibes

Anyways, weird vibe issues do occur. Searching i found a few people who's 950 had suddenly started noticably vibrating more at around 5-6000 rpm.

Here is my horror story. Maybe this thread will give me some motivation to go debug it. I've procrastinated since last June. http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697087

crazybrit screwed with this post 02-21-2012 at 10:50 PM
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 05:52 PM   #14
bwalsh OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlrides View Post
That falls in the range of potential causes.

Do you have confidence in internet forums diagnosing the issue sight unseen ...................... with your money ?


UIh...you doubt the mighty Orange Crush? I'm kind leaning towards something a little less harsh then a worn piston though...I hope I'm right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMuffinMan View Post
Vibration: The main jet might be clogged or improperly set for one of the cylinders, a wheel might be out of balance.

Noise: My bike does that when hot after it's been sitting over lunctime, and sometimes when cold. The fix is a new relief valve spring. Higher viscosity oil (10-50 or 10-60 for example) will help until you get the spring replaced.


The noise I'm not worried about. Some vibration is normal with these bikes so your best bet would be to have another 950A owner in the area check it out with you so he can let you know if the vibes are normal or if something's majorly borked. Another more involved option is to take it to a dealer for an inspection and have a compression test done on each cylinder.

If you don't want to go through the trouble tell the guy to give you a break so if there is engine trouble you can somewhat pay for it. Carb's gumming up/improperly jetted, or a shittily balanced wheel are much more common on these bikes then a bad piston as was suggested. Of course I'm about 1700 miles away so take that for what it's worth.

After having my bike for 6 months now I'm so not intimidated by wrenching on it, you'll learn it one way or another when you own one of these

It does have akra's on it and I don't know if the PO rejetted but it pulls really good down low. It's not a wheel out of balance. I can't ask for any more of a break, see below...

Here's the rest of the story and may clear some things up...
When I found it a month ago it had been sitting on consignment since the end of September. It's in a store that doesn't sell these types of motorcycles hence the reason it's still there.
I asked to hear it run. They pulled it outside and it had a dead battery. Jumped it with another battery and it ran like crap. OK, it's been sitting with ethanol gas in the carbs for 4 months, that's understandable.
They took it into their shop. The mechanics are kind of on the young side and not rained to work on KTM's(remember this)
I made a low offer. The store owner said he would contact the owner of he bike. I didn't want to fool with it or even test ride it until I knew whether I was going to buy it or not. I left.
The store owner finally got ahold of the owner of the bike and he would only come down halfway from what he wanted and what I offered. No deal.
Last week I called to see if it was still there. It was. I made the same offer. The store owner said he would call the owner again and tell him "look, this is the only serious offer you have had. This guy is really interested and I would advise to take his offer."
I call today to see what's up. Still hasn't gotten a hold of the bike owner. I'm riding and not too far away. He says to stop by and ride it anyway.
Get there and he has gotten in touch with the bike owner. Will split the remaining difference. Deal! That's when I take it for the ride and discover these issues.

When they took the bike on commission they did nothing but put a for sale sign on it, which is all that they should have done. Come to find out when they took it back inside to get it running they found a mouse nest in the air box! Yeah, that night prevent it from running right.
They cleaned the carbs(how well I don't know) and put new plugs in(?)
It may still have junk in the carbs. Who knows. I doubt they spent a lot of time with it.

My plan, if I get it, is to tear it down to bare frame and engine, give it a good cleaning, clean the carbs, new oil and filter(s), new air filter(s), check the plugs they supposedly put in, check the water pump, fuel pump and other odds and ends.
I figure I'll have it apart for a couple weeks at least. I'm kind of anal about thing like this.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST




bwalsh screwed with this post 02-21-2012 at 07:24 PM
bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #15
Sumi
Beastly Adventurer
 
Sumi's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Hungary
Oddometer: 1,556
IDLE should be no less than 1400 rpm :) so I'd recommend turning it up a little as yours seems to idle a little low. This will also help the oil pressure to build up faster and probably eliminate the rattling sound when engine is hot. It's normal with a cold engine though. As for the 6k rpm vibes, I'd recommend a carb balance.
__________________
2005.5 950 Adventure (with 265mm travel suspension)
Sumi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014