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Old 03-26-2012, 11:07 AM   #31
Adv Grifter
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Congrats on making the trip. Where did you guys ride to?

You can lose a lot of oil if the counter shaft seal is leaking. Hopefully that is where most of it is coming from.

Some oil in air box is normal ... how much oil is in there?
Here are a few things to check out:

First off, be sure you know how to correctly check oil level. You may have overfilled. If you overfill, excess oil will be pumped into air box. Bike should be HOT when checking oil. Beyond that, I'm not familiar with the XT225.

Next ... make sure your crankcase vent hose is free, unblocked, not kinked and that any other breather hoses are routed correctly (not missing?). Blocked crankcase vent can cause oil burning ... oil getting past rings because there is no venting in crankcase, thus too much pressure, forcing oil past rings and this same pressure would force more out via countershaft seal.

The last option is worn rings. Check for blow by ... pull off the crank case vent hose where it connects to the air box. When the bike is running there should be some air flow coming out ... but not too much. An expert would be able to tell you if you are pumping oil out of crankcase into air box. Too much blow by means lack of compression (worn rings) and oil pumping out breather and into air box.

If so, probably bad rings. Rebuild time.

I would do a Leak Down test and compression test on the cylinder/head. This should indicate regards both rings and valves. Normally, a lot of oil in air box indicates bad rings or overfilled oil. But note caveats above.

The poor running / lack of power, could be a clogged Pilot Jet. Just replace it with the stock size. Replace main jet too. Neither are expensive and a new jet is always a good idea.

Getting power from using the choke is not a great solution, even though it worked for you. (I've done it too!) BUT ...

When you run the choke ... you richen up the mixture A LOT. Lots of fuel is introduced into the combustion chamber, your motor cannot ignite all this fuel and some of it can get past the rings (still in liquid form) and run down along cylinder walls, thinning out oil film and causing metal to metal contact. Not good.

Running with choke on for a short time is not going to cause damage, but running at high speeds all day ? Not sure. Compression and leak down tests will tell the tale.

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 03-26-2012 at 11:18 AM
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:38 AM   #32
TUCKERS
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yeah, if it only runs with the choke on it's probably (my name for it) slow running jet.

you can clean it or replace it. the effective way to clean it is use a 'numbered drill' these are very small drill bits, and you just twist the appropiate sized one through the jet by using just finger and thumb.

i have a good supply of numbered drills, if you come by we could give it a shot if you need help. another good idea is to replace the float bowl phillips head screws with allens but you already found that out right

its a simple bike actually. i have a friend with some parts. he may have new carb to sell, maybe. he has a couple of gas tanks as well. speaking of which that is probably where your trouble is coming from if its been sat. the old gas will have put tarnish on the jets and in the tank. you may think you have cleaned the jets but obviously not good enough, they are very picky.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:24 PM   #33
Roadracer_Al
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By far the easiest way to clean a jet is to burn the gunk out over a flame - I often use my gas range in the kitchen or a propane plumbing torch. Just get the jet red hot and dunk into water. All the crud will fall right out. DO NOT hold the jet with pliers - they get soft when hot, and the pliers will crush the jet. Make a handle with a long twist of safety wire or bailing wire around the threads.

IMHO, poking stuff into jets is sub-optimal -- you could remove metal and make the jet richer, or leave crud in the jet, making it leaner.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:48 PM   #34
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A long one ^_^

Thanks folks, I'm feeling the welcome and appreciate it.

I'm fairly sure that the main leak is coming from the counter shaft seal (to be technically correct) due to A) where the oil is pooling, though that can be incredibly deceptive and B) the fact that on the second morning of the trip I started it up and watched it puke half a liter of oil in about ten seconds right from the seal . It hasn't done that since then, thankfully. Not sure why it did that in the first place, actually. As for checking the oil, I've been checking it cold at first (just to make sure that it HAS oil before starting, then again after it warms up. Ya know, keeping the bike upright and allowing five-ten minutes for the oil to drain properly since it's dry sump.

We came to call it my handy automatic chain lubricator. I bet those fancy BMW 1200 GSs don't have one of those, eh? Lol it made a god-awful mess though, at speed it basically flung an oily mist everywhere. It wasn't a horribly fast leak though, so it was a light mist at least.

I'm not sure how to quantify the oil in the airbox other than to say that after cleaning the carb and the crankcase vent I took it about half a mile to test it and when I came back to continue diagnosis, there was enough oil up there to drip a few drops to the ground from the low point in the airbox. I'm pretty sure I didn't overfill it (save, perhaps, for that second morning where I filled it cold. oops.)

To carry on, my plan is as such: Once my work decides if they want to fire me (I'll explain that in the RR ), at some undetermined point in the future I'll have the cash for parts. I plan on stripping the bike to the frame. I've already hand my hands on every single part of the bike, but haven't disassembled the mechanical aspects beyond minor inspection. I'm going to (hopefully, anyway!) strip the bike and powder-coat the frame, checking more thoroughly for breaks and cracks and whatnot. At that time, I'm going to tear apart the motor and crankcase since I noticed metal shavings in the bottom of the oil filter housing. Mind you, I noticed the shavings in SF, before having to run it choked. I'm pretty sure I've got substantial blow-by so I may have the engine bored out and all that hoop-la. Not sure how thick the cylinder walls are so I'm not sure what the rebuild limitations are. I'll probably try to keep the displacement the same, just to avoid the clusterfuck that is upsizing. That'd mean a new carb, exhaust, etc. More effort than it's worth, IMO. But an engine rebuild to some degree anyway, probably back to factory settings for simplicity.

At the same time, I'm going to re-jet the carb (and I MAY need a new one, but I honestly have no idea how to tell when it's shot. seems like something that just can't get worn out to me. I can replace the diaphrams and gaskets and jets, but beyond that?) as many XT225 riders suggest and do the 'Z1' muffler modification as outlined on xt225.com.

Beyond that, I'm going to rewire a good portion of the bike. As it stands currently, I'm bypassing practically everything safety-related to get it to start. I more or less did away with five or so relays and things. The electrical is clearly over-complicated for what it is. However, my little bypass has one flaw (hence the re-do). The terminals on my new handy start switch are exposed and the other key (for a bike lock, lol) I have on my motorcycle ring likes to slip down onto said terminals and give me a light show as it arcs across the points. Scary as shit when you're cruising along at sixty MPH at 11 PM after 13 hours of riding and all of a sudden the center of your handlebars starts blasting sparks like someone took a grinder to it.

Back on subject: The crankcase vent hose is free of obstruction and kinks, and the aluminum slide into the crankcase is clear and fits properly. The vent nipple into the airbox is open properly as well.

Compression (to my uneducated finger) seems incredibly strong. Upon pulling the spark plug off and turning it over I thought it was going to rip my finger off at first when I plugged the hole and them spat it out. That seems good, but then I haven't checked it since the real problems began. I did everything I could in the field to clean the jets, including soaking them for about twenty minutes in carb cleaner and scrubbing them (gently, I'll admit) with a piece of wire from the tool kit. The root problem is obviously with the air-fuel mixture, since choking it helped. I lost two of the three screws to the airbox outer cover (in RR ) and had to tape it closed, which did close it up tight and helped somewhat when the problems first began. I sort of think there may be a hole in the diaphram or something, but I didn't check since by the time we guessed that, it was running (choked) and I didn't care enough to tear it apart again.

The bike did sit, for about 6 years (empty, at that!) so the tank was all sorts of nasty. I cleaned about a cup and a half of rust flakes out of the tank when I first got it, and after that cleaned it several times using a couple methods (aquarium gravel + dryer worked absolute wonders) and had to replace the petcock. The amount of sediment in the bottom of the carb made me feel bad for the pool little bike, and I ran a stone filter for the trip, but that still allowed some extremely fine sediment past. I'd kill for a new 4.1 gallon Clarke tank for it, but that's $200 I don't have right now but maybe in time.

I'm already feeling the savings of the 223 ccs of unbridled power and can't describe the aura of manliness I exude when straddling my beast (pardon me, I'm gonna go die of laughter. brb.) But honestly, at around 80 mpg the whole way, I was extremely happy. It cost us less than $150 to take both bikes 1,100 miles, and that's with mine running like crap and dumping excess fuel (half a dozen float bowls worth onto the ground, not to mention the choking ). I enjoyed the trip so much that I feel the hassle and fees of the beginning were well worth it now.

Anyway, thanks for reading all that, I hope it wasn't too boring.

TUCKERS, I may have to take you up on that offer if I can't figure it out by me onesies, and out of idle curiosity, how much do you think your friend would want for a carb if he's got one? I nearly wet myself when I saw that a new carb is almost $600 from the factory.

P.S. One question to the world at large. Is there anything that this ethanol fuel doesn't eat? I swear, I just put on a new fuel line from Chaparral Motorsports and it's already yellowed and leaking a little from the gas eating it.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #35
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by TUCKERS View Post
its a simple bike actually. i have a friend with some parts. he may have new carb to sell, maybe. he has a couple of gas tanks as well. speaking of which that is probably where your trouble is coming from if its been sat. the old gas will have put tarnish on the jets and in the tank. you may think you have cleaned the jets but obviously not good enough, they are very picky.
That's a very good point. I did not realize the bike has sat. Crap in the tank will continually and repeatedly clog up your jets.
You gotta really clean out the tank. If it's badly rusted or loaded with crud, sometimes it makes more sense to just buy another used one (in good shape). In the meantime, install an inline fuel filter. Keep an eye on it. It it keeps filling with crap ... then you've got a dirty tank. If not? All good!
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:32 PM   #36
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welcome to the nut house..... some of the best people you will ever meet in the world frequent this site - just be careful to not step in the bullshit.




Ill see ya out there sometime
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:50 AM   #37
Roadracer_Al
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Check the carb boot for cracks. Needing the choke to run is a sign of a lean mixture - somewhere air is getting in and causing it. Don't pop for the replacement carb until you're sure the boot is good. A neat way to find air leaks is to spray starting fluid on the part your'e testing -- if the RPM goes up, it's got a leak.

Also, If you're going to spend big bux on a carb, buy something with an accelerator pump!
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:45 PM   #38
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Good suggestion Roadracer_Al, and that was one of the first things we did. My handy can of ether had no effect on the RPMs when sprayed around the carb, but it could be that the boot has a small enough crack to stay closed until running temp is met and it expands. I'll look in to it again, a bit more thoroughly. There IS a crack in it, but I've checked it a couple of times and it hasn't seemed to be a problem. It had it all along and the bike ran fine, which is why I discounted it. Maybe it got bigger Lol that's an easy one to fix anyway.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:51 PM   #39
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Don't give up on your DMV efforts. They make you pay all the back fees and penalties in advance, and then a DMV person in Sacramento determines the fate of your statement of facts a few weeks later. If they believe your statement of facts and there are zero file record items for the vehicle during the period covered by the statement (no tickets, no violations, no fix-it tickets, no warrants, etc.) you stand a good chance to recover some of the fee. They may refund some of the fees (about 1/3 of the fees on my DRZ showed up in a refund check about two months after completing the transfer).

Welcome to the fun.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:55 PM   #40
Maliwal OP
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Talking Ride Report Finished!

So after spending around three hours trying to figure out what to say and what not to say, it is finished. If anyone's interested, the full Rider Report is available here:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...1#post18320781

Here's hoping that works...?
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:56 PM   #41
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Hey again folks, I just found some time to poke around and see what may have been wrong and I've discovered a few things.

First off, more metal shavings located in the oil filter area, though not very many. They were mainly accumulated in the cover, which I think I neglected to clean properly initially. The oil filter itself had quite a few chunks of good-sized crap caught on it, and this is after only about 600 miles. So I'm thinking I need to completely flush the system, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about this. Any suggestions?

Second, I pulled the sprocket this morning and lo-and-behold, the oil seal was A) plastic, B) old, and C) half melted. I'm guessing that C) is the issue. It came out incredibly easy: It stuck to the back of the sprocket when I pulled it off. So I'm thinking that MAY have been a contributing factor in my leak. Just a wild guess, but something tells me it's related. After tootling around Kaman Industrial in Ontario for a while, I've got a new seal (and an extra, since it was basically free due to a $10 order minimum) and it's installed. It took some convincing to get in the hole, but it's seated and seems like it was made to go there (imagine that!).

After finishing with the seal (and giving it a slight de-greasing bath) I moved on to the carb once again. Long and short of it: I'm going to need to rebuild it. At least that's what I've been told by a couple people. There's a small side diaphragm assembly (http://www.johnburrcycles.com/fiche_...=1992&fveh=490) [the thing in between objects 6 & 17] which needs to be replaced since it's currently being held on (and together, it's in pieces) by some JB Weld. Additionally, I need new jets. The pilot jet is completely stripped out and I can't remove it, largely due to the last guy who offered to help out: my father. Heavy-handedness + brass screw = no more screw head. I've got a friend with a milling machine, so I'm going to go plead for help in drilling out the jet and re-tapping the threads. It's either that or I'm going to need a new carb. At least those are the only options I can see right now.

On to the engine: Leaking oil for the valve covers, the front particularly. Not a big deal, it's a liquid heat-exchange for the front of the motor and that way it looks cool and smokes when I'm stopped. So new gaskets for those. I'm really (REALLY) hesitant to take the motor off the bike, since it IS the lower frame. Seems like a lot of work to do in my driveway since I don't have a shop to work in. Everything has to be re-assembled and put away or it will grow legs between the times I can work on it. I've yet to check for blow-by since I don't want to start the bike without oil (someone once said that engines need the stuff, but I can't imagine why I mean, scraping sounds means its working, right?). Basically, at this point the whole thing gets shelved until I find a new job. Lol for anyone who read the ride report: Work is pissed. They don't actually have anything on me, since I was under doctor's orders not to be there. But I now have 1 day (5 hours) a week for the forseeable future. And the supervisor REALLY doesn't like it when you tell HR about him breaking labor laws, so I'm on the shit list permanently.

Anyway, enough ranting. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm open to ideas now XD Though I need to work out a bit more before I can do the male-stripper-lumberjack thing. Things jiggle that shouldn't jiggle for that.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:48 PM   #42
RandyM
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I have a TTR225 which is mostly the same bike set up as a begginer trail bike. That plastic thing on the side of the carb breaks on everyone and Yamaha does not sell that part, only whole carbs. It is poorly designed and will crack as soon as you torque the screws that hold it. I did not find a source for that plastic thing and ended up using JB weld like everyone else.

Also those carbs are notorious for cloggin up if you leave gas in the bowl for a few days. I just drain the carb bowl before putting it away. Otherwise you can shut off the petcock and let it run until all the gas is gone.

Check the XT225 forums. A lot of XT fans replace the stock CV carb with a Mikuni pumper. I think you need to modify or fabricate a bracket to hold the throttle cable.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:53 PM   #43
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I have a TTR225 which is mostly the same bike set up as a begginer trail bike. That plastic thing on the side of the carb breaks on everyone and Yamaha does not sell that part, only whole carbs. It is poorly designed and will crack as soon as you torque the screws that hold it. I did not find a source for that plastic thing and ended up using JB weld like everyone else.

Also those carbs are notorious for cloggin up if you leave gas in the bowl for a few days. I just drain the carb bowl before putting it away. Otherwise you can shut off the petcock and let it run until all the gas is gone.

Check the XT225 forums. A lot of XT fans replace the stock CV carb with a Mikuni pumper. I think you need to modify or fabricate a bracket to hold the throttle cable.
Dave at Motohelp sells the part.

He has a connection and I believe he said they retail for around $60.

http://www.motohelp.com

Tell him John Gil sent you.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:04 PM   #44
Maliwal OP
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Fantastic, thanks guys. I'm afraid a new carb is out of the question, though that would probably be really nice. The carb isn't clogged (this time), it was actually surprisingly clean.

In other news, I also cracked the upper diaphragm cover today. All four bolt holes split out without much pressure. Joy oh joy XD

John, you're awesome. I've got Dave's page and ebay bookmarked and as soon as I find another job, I'll be ordering that cover. I don't see the upper cover anywhere though, so I'm going to have to be creative there.

I'm thinking that I'll try to scrounge enough cash to buy a liter of oil and check for blow-by, and go from there =o
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Maliwal View Post
Fantastic, thanks guys. I'm afraid a new carb is out of the question, though that would probably be really nice. The carb isn't clogged (this time), it was actually surprisingly clean.

In other news, I also cracked the upper diaphragm cover today. All four bolt holes split out without much pressure. Joy oh joy XD

John, you're awesome. I've got Dave's page and ebay bookmarked and as soon as I find another job, I'll be ordering that cover. I don't see the upper cover anywhere though, so I'm going to have to be creative there.

I'm thinking that I'll try to scrounge enough cash to buy a liter of oil and check for blow-by, and go from there =o
Just call Dave. He will keep you on two wheels. He has a small shop, but has a lot of resources.

Ride on!
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