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Old 04-15-2012, 09:40 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf View Post

I wonder if * snip * (unless 12mm is too small to bear the shearing forces)..... That plate that the exhaust, right footpeg, and swingarm bolt through looks pretty solid to me. Solid enough?

Edit:




I figured I'd carry a ratchet strap to raise the steer wheel by hooking around a root or guardrail or something and ratcheting the back end down. The tug is light enough that I figure I could probably just remove the ballast and lift it and jam something under the frame.

But yea, a little scissor jack or something sounds a lot easier. XD Though the centerstand sure makes chain lubing less of a chore. :3

Thanks for the advice. I owe ya one. :3

I like the fact that you are willing to give it a go , top marks .
Ya owe me nuffin'

Chain oil ... pipe/tube filled with oil ... a lawn mower tap and a vacuum hose aimed at the bottom of the sprocket attached to the bike ... turn it on when riding ...

All my junk is held on with M12 -12.9 bolts . Strength depends on lots of things .




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FR700 screwed with this post 04-15-2012 at 10:20 PM
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:46 PM   #77
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I was wrong, they're M10 rather than M12. Went back and changed it. :3

Speaking of 10mm bolts supporting the shearing loads associated with the car:

Quote:
A 10mm bolt shank through 3mm plate will take around 0.5 tons bearing force without distorting/tearing the plate whereas 6mm plate will take 1.03 tons. An 8.8 M10 bolt in shear will take over 3 tonnes in shear so the tensile strength of the bolt is less of a consideration than the bearing capability of the plates. An M12 shank will increase the bearing force to 0.62 and 1.64 tons for the same plates.
That seems like an awful lot of force. I guess it'd be ok... I was thinking about the eye bolts in the U-clamps and frame and how large they are compared to the shock and exhaust hanger bolts.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:49 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by FR700 View Post
All my junk is held on with M12 -12.9 bolts . Strength depends on lots of things .
Well heck yea. If your BMW rig doesn't fall apart with M12 bolts, then surely a Velowreck and a 400cc 390lb Hawk could hold together with M10s. :3

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Old 04-15-2012, 09:54 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
Well heck yea. If your BMW rig doesn't fall apart with M12 bolts, than surely a Velowreck and a 400cc 390lb Hawk could hold together with M10s. :3
The rear of my sub frame is held on with four M10 ( center stand mount ) and the front four that thread into the alloy sump plate are ... M8 . Works like a charm .
You will be fine with your set up and weight .


* edit * M8 ... my bad .

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Old 04-15-2012, 09:58 PM   #80
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Hmmm, the top of the shocks ride in a metal spacer that rides in a rubber grommet, rather than in a bearing. Will that introduce too much flex?

Am I overthinking this?

Lol.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #81
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Am I overthinking this?

Lol.

Yes

Once the bolt is tight it doesn't care what the shock rubber bush does . The steel sleeve inside the bush does the work .




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Old 04-15-2012, 10:20 PM   #82
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So, with the lower front mount.......

Ought I tie back to something underneath, in addition to those 4 bolts at the end of the downtube, or do you think it'd be strong enough without? In my mind, even without tying back to underneath somewhere, I am seeing the forces being transmitted through the engine and absorbed by the rest of the frame, rather than only stressing the downtube.

I was planning to put a piece of fairly thick steel sheet, maybe 3/16, on each side of the motor mount, utilizing all four bolts and some largish washers, and then weld a piece of fairly large but fairly short square stock (pointing downward) between them. I'd drill a hole in the bottom of the square stock, facing forwards, and weld or bolt one of the metal blocks from one of the U-clamps that is missing a U-piece over the hole, such that the eye bolt can thread into the block and pass down through the hole rather than hanging up against surface of the square stock. I would lock the eye bolt in place with a nut against the block, like the way the chain tensioners work.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:49 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
So, with the lower front mount.......

Ought I tie back to something underneath, in addition to those 4 bolts at the end of the downtube, or do you think it'd be strong enough without? In my mind, even without tying back to underneath somewhere, I am seeing the forces being transmitted through the engine and absorbed by the rest of the frame, rather than only stressing the downtube.

I was planning to put a piece of fairly thick steel sheet, maybe 3/16, on each side of the motor mount, utilizing all four bolts and some largish washers, and then weld a piece of fairly large but fairly short square stock (pointing downward) between them. I'd drill a hole in the bottom of the square stock, facing forwards, and weld or bolt one of the metal blocks from one of the U-clamps that is missing a U-piece over the hole, such that the eye bolt can thread into the block and pass down through the hole rather than hanging up against surface of the square stock. I would lock the eye bolt in place with a nut against the block, like the way the chain tensioners work.

3/16 will be more than enough . To tie back or not ... depends on how you design it .


* edit * pic' removed to stop spamming Leaf's thread .





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Old 04-15-2012, 11:19 PM   #84
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Ahhhhh, I see what you did there! Interesting.

Thanks for all your help! I'm going to move all this subframe stuff to the back of my brain for now and save it so I have something interesting to think about while I am in meetings all day tomorrow. :P
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:15 PM   #85
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Sent an email to Claude about some eye bolts for the shock and exhaust hanger. Hopefully he won't realize what a crazy I am. >_>

Probably won't be able to get down to the farm to do any fabricatin' until Sunday, unless I take a day off in the middle of the week, so I am just going to ride it back and forth to work solo until then, and try to suss out any mechanical problems.

Went to buy some new plugs to do some plug chops, but the parts store had closed 5 minutes before I got there. So had the hardware store, so no rotor bolts either. D: Have to grab them on the way home tomorrow.

In the interest of doing a safety check before taking off for work in the morning, I popped the side engine cover off to get to the front sprocket. That's one rusty chain, innit? I scrubbed it with WD-40 a few days ago, but I think it's too far gone to be safe...


Hmmmm, looks like some water has been leaking into there. The flywheel and pickup are looking pretty rough. Will have to deal with that eventually, I expect.


New front sprocket. Gearing it down a tooth. May put the old one back on, as I can see little difference in torque, but it's definitely more buzzy at 55mph. Ratio is only changed from 2.00 to 2.14, so maybe I am imagining things. Should also make wear more even, with an odd/even pairing. Was 32/16, now 32/15.


Old sprocket. Some wear, but not pointy yet. Rather odd wear pattern though, like something was out of line. Or maybe it was rode with the chain too loose too long.


New sprocket installed. I am out of molybendum grease, so used white lithium grease instead. I've heard you're not supposed to mix them, but oh well.


Pssh, back sprocket is fine. Looks like I forgot to turn the preload on the shocks back up, too. >_>


New 530-100L chain installed. Cheap-o JC Whitney non-o-ring "heavy duty" master-link type. Never had a bit of trouble with 'em, and they're cheap as dirt. I think it's only rated for 3 ton, but eh... It's a little jumpy, but it ought to settle down after it wears in a little. I always set them a little tighter than they ought to be, and then don't have to mess with it again after the initial stretch. Street bikes ought to have spring tensioners on them, like dirt bikes. -_-'

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Old 04-16-2012, 09:59 PM   #86
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:59 PM   #87
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Instead of putting eye bolts on the shock/exhaust hangers for the rear mounts....

I'm thinking about just bolting a clevis down underneath them (so I wouldn't have any skinny M10 threaded shaft hanging outside of the jam nut), something like this:


Stronger. Cheaper. No frame-crusher clamps.

Then cutting the clevis off the end of the velorex mounting arms that go to these new clevises, and hooking on a heim rod end with a jam nut (or maybe welding, but iunno), like for a steering linkage, like so:


The ends that connect to the sidecar frame would remain the same, clevis on the arm, eye on the frame.

Maybe for the front mounts, too......

Good idear? Bad idear? Completely awful idear? :P

Which of the 4 mounts are subjected to the most stress? Or do they all share it equally?
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:10 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NortwestRider View Post
Here's some pics of the subframe I built for the Vstrom,it didn't have a frame under or in front of the engine.Maybe these pics will give you some idea's.
Hm! I missed your post somehow. I wonder how that happened.

That's pretty keen. I take it the square tubing is holding up well? I find it a lot easier to weld than round tubing. :3
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:30 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf View Post

* snippity snip *



Maybe for the front mounts, too......

Good idear? Bad idear? Completely awful idear? :P

Which of the 4 mounts are subjected to the most stress? Or do they all share it equally?

That'll work

As to stress ... depends ... initial design ... what the outfit is doing at the time .

Sidecars , gotta love 'em . No 'one' answer fits them all



Have fun .



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Old 04-17-2012, 06:08 PM   #90
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I had a cool conversation with Claude on the phone today during lunch break. Wonderful fella. Took time out of his day and gave me all kinds of good advice.

Claude, you are hereby awarded the Official Leaf Seal of Approval. I'll figure out something to buy from you one of these days! :P

---

Through the week, I don't get home from work with enough daylight left to load everything on the $300 Wonder Truck and head down to the ol' homestead to do the subframe work. And I have to work Saturday, too. D: So hopefully I can at least get started on things on Sunday....

In the meantime, mounted the rotor on that 18" 750 Nighthawk front rim. I had to use english bolts, 'cos the hardware store didn't have any metric ones long enough. Oh well.

The bent fender is more noticeable with the wider tire. I shall have to apply a BFH at some point. :3



For a pig-in-lipstick, I can't help but think that it looks rather keen.

I called up a friend to whom I permanently loaned a 250 Rebel a couple of years ago, until she buys her own bike, and we went for a spin to break the tire in. She almost tipped the Rebel in the parking lot while we were sitting around yacking at the turn-around point. =:O That would have been unfortunate; it's the most expensive bike I've ever bought. >_>

I discovered that I need to bleed the brake, though. It's pretty spongy... From the look of the master cylinder, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm combing fleabay for one soon.
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